A

Visitor

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18 Messages

Saturday, June 5th, 2021 7:56 PM

Closed

Beyond frustrated: comcast mailservers rate limiting my mailserver for one email to SIX inbound addresses at comcast

I'm a systems administrator with 27 years experience. I've run huge mailservers (sending a million messages a day - legitimate opt-in messages) and am now retired. I run a teeny-tiny personal mailserver on an Amazon EC2 instance for myself and a small number of family and friends. Outbound email is 100% compliant with *all* modern standards: DKIM, SPF, DMARC, correct rDNS, etc, and there are less than a dozen personal users on the server. No spam originates from it - never has, never will. Typically fewer than a hundred messages go outbound from this server per day. I'm on the comcast FBL list. Have never gotten a complaint.

One of my users sent an email to a group of friends (via CC) - 38 in all. Of those, SIX addresses were at comcast. The mail was delivered to all other recipients immediately; the comcast mailservers throttled the incoming connections immediately, as follows:

2021-06-05 10:19:01.826 [6852] 1lpJcm-00069e-JQ H=mx1.comcast.net [96.114.157.80]:25: SMTP error from remote mail server after end of data: 421 4.2.0 35.155.231.77 Throttled - try again later. Please see http://postmaster.comcast.net/smtp-error-codes.php#RL000001
2021-06-05 10:19:02.737 [6852] 1lpJcm-00069e-JQ H=mx2.comcast.net [68.87.20.5]:25: SMTP error from remote mail server after MAIL FROM:<xxx@amural.com> SIZE=752942: 421 4.1.0 35.155.231.77 Throttled - try again later. Please see http://postmaster.comcast.net/smtp-error-codes.php#RL000001
2021-06-05 10:19:02.761 [6851] 1lpJcm-00069e-JQ == xxxxxxxxx@comcast.net R=dnslookup T=remote_smtp defer (-45) H=mx2.comcast.net [68.87.20.5]:25: SMTP error from remote mail server after MAIL FROM:<xxx@amural.com> SIZE=752942: 421 4.1.0 35.155.231.77 Throttled - try again later. Please see http://postmaster.comcast.net/smtp-error-codes.php#RL000001
2021-06-05 10:19:02.761 [6851] 1lpJcm-00069e-JQ == xxxxxx@comcast.net R=dnslookup T=remote_smtp defer (-45) H=mx2.comcast.net [68.87.20.5]:25: SMTP error from remote mail server after MAIL FROM:<xxx@amural.com> SIZE=752942: 421 4.1.0 35.155.231.77 Throttled - try again later. Please see http://postmaster.comcast.net/smtp-error-codes.php#RL000001
2021-06-05 10:19:02.762 [6851] 1lpJcm-00069e-JQ == xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx@comcast.net R=dnslookup T=remote_smtp defer (-45) H=mx2.comcast.net [68.87.20.5]:25: SMTP error from remote mail server after MAIL FROM:<xxx@amural.com> SIZE=752942: 421 4.1.0 35.155.231.77 Throttled - try again later. Please see http://postmaster.comcast.net/smtp-error-codes.php#RL000001
2021-06-05 10:19:02.762 [6851] 1lpJcm-00069e-JQ == xxxxxxx@comcast.net R=dnslookup T=remote_smtp defer (-45) H=mx2.comcast.net [68.87.20.5]:25: SMTP error from remote mail server after MAIL FROM:<xxx@amural.com> SIZE=752942: 421 4.1.0 35.155.231.77 Throttled - try again later. Please see http://postmaster.comcast.net/smtp-error-codes.php#RL000001
2021-06-05 10:19:02.764 [6851] 1lpJcm-00069e-JQ == xxxxxxxxxx@comcast.net R=dnslookup T=remote_smtp defer (-45) H=mx2.comcast.net [68.87.20.5]:25: SMTP error from remote mail server after MAIL FROM:<xxx@amural.com> SIZE=752942: 421 4.1.0 35.155.231.77 Throttled - try again later. Please see http://postmaster.comcast.net/smtp-error-codes.php#RL000001
2021-06-05 10:19:02.766 [6851] 1lpJcm-00069e-JQ == xxxxx@comcast.net R=dnslookup T=remote_smtp defer (-45) H=mx2.comcast.net [68.87.20.5]:25: SMTP error from remote mail server after MAIL FROM:<xxx@amural.com> SIZE=752942: 421 4.1.0 35.155.231.77 Throttled - try again later. Please see http://postmaster.comcast.net/smtp-error-codes.php#RL000001

(The above is a recent log snippet, it's been going on for about 20 hours)

The retry interval on my mailserver is 37 minutes, which should be more than enough time for a greylist throttle to clear. In response to the failure, I increased my retry limit to 77 minutes. Nothing. I'm using Exim4, which uses exponential backoff, so the retry interval now is several hours)

The extraordinarily frustrating part of this is that several months ago this same thing happened - with the exact same list of addresses. At that time, I called the listed contact number for the rate limiting issues - Customer Security Assurance at 888-565-4329.  - and spent well more than an hour trying to get multiple different people to even grasp the basics of what the issue was. I am a comcast/xfinity customer - for my home internet service. I am not sending the mails from there, they are going out from a fully-vetted server on the internet. The customer security assurance folks barely understood this - at a phone number ostensibly not just for average folks yelling 'i can't get ma emailses!!'. They would not escalate. The best they said is 'wait longer'. It never worked - I eventually asked my user to send the emails to those addresses via an alternative service, and deleted the queued messages.

Comcast has insanely broken throttling rules. Six inbound messages from one email, from one server, and I'm throttled for days? It's absurd.

And because the comcast postmaster offers no other means of contacting them, like...hmm, i dunno, EMAIL (so that i can send logs, or detailed info like the above without attempting to sound it out to someone over the phone) - I have no recourse.

I'm too small a server to generate a SenderScore reputation. But I'm compliant with*all* the rules for how email servers work, communicate, transfer, authenticate, verify...you name it. I do not have this issue with any other email service.

I'll add that in a desparate attempt in the previous iteration of this, I filled out the form to be removed from being _blocked_, but all I'd get back is 'you're not blocked, can't help you'.

Am I asking for too much here?

Official Employee

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1K Messages

3 years ago

Hey there, I am really sorry for the frustration. I would be happy to look into this for you. Can you please send me a private message to Xfinity Support with your full name and full address.

Here are the detailed steps to direct message us:

• Click "Sign In" if necessary

• Click the "Peer to peer chat" icon (upper right corner of this page)

• Click the "New message" (pencil and paper) icon

• Type "Xfinity Support" in the to line and select "Xfinity Support" from the drop-down list

• Type your message in the text area near the bottom of the window

• Press Enter to send your message

Visitor

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18 Messages

Thanks very much, AnthonyT -  will do so asap! Appreciate the response.

Visitor

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18 Messages

Unfortunately, I faced the same issues as the previous times I've tried addressing this with comcast. The bottom line is that there is no means by which the Postmaster services can be contacted directly for an issue other than a hard block.

I'm investigating gatewaying any email destined for comcast through AWS SES services. An annoyance at minimum.

Official Employee

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1.7K Messages

Hello again! I wanted to reach back out and see if a solution to this issue was found with our CSA team.

I am an Official Xfinity Employee.
Official Employees are from multiple teams within Xfinity: CARE, Product, Leadership.
We ask that you post publicly so people with similar questions may benefit from the conversation.
Was your question answered? Please, mark a reply as the Accepted Answer.tick

Visitor

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18 Messages

3 years ago

Hi ComcastAldrik, thanks for checking in. No, there is no mechanism by which either front-line support or customers can reach the Postmaster team. It's simply not possible for me to point out to the postmaster team that the throttling rules that have been put in place are performing incorrectly, and blocking legitimate email for no reason.

I'm exploring alternatives outside of comcast to mitigate the problem, probably in this case I'll create a mailing list for my user. Mailing lists are generally handled differently both in how they are sent, and how remote hosts accept them. It is an annoyance, but seems the only option.

In short, there's no means by which Comcast employees here on the forum can fix this problem, unfortunately, so my question will go unanswered.

Official Employee

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1.7K Messages

No worries! At this time, the maximum number of emails that can be sent to recipients per day is 1,000 and the maximum number of recipients that can be in an email is 100. Our Comcast Business offers higher daily limits. 

 

Currently, the RL000001 error can only be handle by our CSA team. How long would it take to create a mailing list? I would like to check back and see if the issue is still occurring after attempting a mailing list.

I am an Official Xfinity Employee.
Official Employees are from multiple teams within Xfinity: CARE, Product, Leadership.
We ask that you post publicly so people with similar questions may benefit from the conversation.
Was your question answered? Please, mark a reply as the Accepted Answer.tick

Visitor

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2 Messages

I've had this sort of problem for months now. Has there been any resolution that the rest of us might like to hear about?

I can actually replicate these throttling errors by having our server send emails to only two users at comcast.net!

Visitor

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18 Messages

Nope. It still happens, regularly. Just happened yesterday, a letter with two comcast addresses as the destination. Absurdity. I ran across an official employee account here in the forums, "XfinityCSAEmail", and send a brief direct message. That was on saturday, no response so far, but wasn't expecting one over the weekend. With any luck I'll hear something back, but I'm not getting my hopes up.

Expert

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31K Messages

@anastrophe FWIW, the sending of unsolicited DM's is against Forum Guidelines and the Acceptable Use Policy.  In the future, please refrain from doing so.  Thanks!

I am not a Comcast Employee.
I am a Customer Expert volunteering my time to help other customers here in the Forums.
We ask that you post publicly so people with similar questions may benefit from the conversation.

Was your question answered? Please mark an Accepted Answer!tick

Visitor

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18 Messages

I was not aware of that. Apologies. So, there is no way of contacting or getting the attention of the one account here that might actually have insight into the matter, XfinityCSAEmail ?

I mean, this is, unquestionably, something that is _broken_ within comcast. No MX server should ever block an inbound email that contains only two comcast customer addresses, setting aside that the messages are simply personal communications being sent by someone using a different mailserver (as in, it could come from gmail, or earthlink, or a university, or just a small personal email server that is not on any blacklists anywhere on the internet, never has sent spam (in decades of being active on the internet), and isn't flooding comcast with either spam or even solicited email).

As I mentioned above, I've tried speaking with CSA on the phone, and whomever it was barely understood how infrastructure email servers work, and it was essentially impossible to communicate the information to someone who would understand.

I'm sorry, but this is, again, frustrating. I have to ask my user (my sister in law) to send email to her friends via a gmail account. Comcast happily accepts those emails. Yet it will not accept them from my server - which, once again, I have to reiterate is fully compliant with all current standards for sending email - DKIM records in place, SPF, DMARC, it's all there, the server's email is accepted without consequence EVERYWHERE else on the internet, you name it, email is accepted (aol, microsoft, gmail, universities all around the country, again, everywhere).  Comcast? hates it when my sister in law sends one message and sends it to two of her friends whom she used to be able to regularly communicate with, who happen to have comcast email addresses.

Can you understand why this is a problem?

Again - I apologize for sending the direct message. In yet another of my many searches on the internet for a solution to this bizarre problem, a result happened to come up that showed the response from XfinityCSAEmail. It was a last ditch effort. I meant no harm.

Expert

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31K Messages

3 years ago

@anastrophe 

You  may be running up against this [from the Customer Acceptable Use Policy]:

use or run dedicated, stand-alone equipment or servers from the Premises that provide network content or any other services to anyone outside of your Premises local area network (“Premises LAN”), also commonly referred to as public services or servers. Examples of prohibited equipment and servers include, but are not limited to, email, web hosting, file sharing, and proxy services and servers;

Comcast Acceptable Use Policy

I don't know this for sure, but it is a possibility, which means you would need to go back to CSA and discuss this with them.

Visitor

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18 Messages

3 years ago

Thanks. That's not the problem, my server is hosted in the AWS cloud.

I was able to set up Amazon's SES on my AWS server, and I am now routing comcast.net - and only comcast.net - out from my server through SES, so, comcast's ridiculous deferrals - which are contrary to the very policies comcast postmaster claims - will no longer torture me and my few users. This really should be fixed on comcast's end, but i'm not holding my breath.

Visitor

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1 Message

3 years ago

@anastrophe  we are seeing a similar issue: Our email server is hosting on AWS (though currently this particular server is not routing thru SES; we are sending directly via PostFix) and for the last 2 weeks all of the emails from this one server (but not other servers with the same setup) are being not accepted by comcast. Even 1 single email going to a single comcast account is not being accepted, coming back with ... 

host mx2.comcast.net[68.87.20.5] said: 550 5.1.0
    Connection is not being accepted at this time. (in reply to MAIL FROM
    command)


We are NOT being blocked; we filled out 'the form' and got back the same response you did previously: 'You're not blocked' 

Has routing thru SES resolved your issue? In the long term we can/will do this, but not immediately as we need to deal with some of the downsides of routing thru SES (e.g., we have developed custom reporting using our postfix logs and we'll need to redevelop these reports to use AWS logs)

Any update on your progress is appreciated. Thank you for posting this thread; it is nice to not be alone out here with delivery issues to @comcast.net 
accounts. Our clients - who depend on our servers delivering critical email confirmations to their members/users - are not amused by this and neither are we. 

Official Employee

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135 Messages

3 years ago

@anastrophe and @troubleshooter2021  send me a direct message with the IP and a few recent logs. 

Visitor

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18 Messages

3 years ago

Hi XfinityGabrielS,

Are you in the CSA group, or can you communicate directly with them? If not, you will not be able to assist. These are not "client" or  comcast email user issues, they're server infrastructure level, and can't be fixed with client level diagnostics. I appreciate the offer of help - sincerely -  but have been down this road too many times. What you _could_ do is try to get word up the chain that the soviet-style blockade that's in place for reaching the CSA folks - the actual CSA folks, not any front-end buffers to the CSA folks - needs to end. It's hostile to people like myself who run infrastructure services and need to resolve infrastructure problems cooperatively. This is a failure at the infrastructure level that is happening at comcast, and which harms comcast's customers.

troubleshooter2021, yes, routing the mails through SES has "solved" the problem for me. My use case of course isn't reliant on getting bounce or reject notifications, unlike yours certainly is, so I commiserate on the added administration this will cause.

As I said in my opening comment way up top, more than four months ago, I've been a systems administrator a long time. I, as well, had a healthy layer of front-line tech support people between me and customers, as a customer demanding to talk to me because the email header said 'postmaster' and they got a message they thought was spam, wasn't, shall we say, scalable. But when someone called in to frontline tech support and said someone was saying that they were seeing wonky fast-repeating incomplete connections on their MX from my outbound, the frontline tech support, who had no idea what that was, could contact me, and i'd say 'send them through'. That's IMPOSSIBLE with comcast - frontline tech literally cannot communicate with CSA, no line of communication is possible.

But as I've also said before, I'm not holding my breath for this to change. I've "fixed" the problem by working around comcast's broken throttles, and done my due diligence on the issue - it is not my responsibility to help fix comcast's infrastructure, even as much as it goes against my systems administrator 'credo' of cooperation with other systems administrators. I've shouted at the brick wall long enough.

Official Employee

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135 Messages

3 years ago

I wasn't looking for client logs, I was looking for the server logs, similar to the SMTP server logs you originally posted just more recent. And of course, I will need the connecting IP so we can look at our logs.  

Sounds like you are good with where you are so no need to send them over.  @troubleshooter2021 if you want me to have the team take a look at the issue, please send me a direct message just because you will be sharing detailed information. 

As an FYI, the CSA number is posted here: https://internetsecurity.xfinity.com/ .  

(edited)

Visitor

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18 Messages

@XfinityGabrielS 

Hi Gabriel - I do want to be clear - I appreciate your efforts and desire to assist. This isn't personal - so far, all the frontline techs I've interacted with have been unfailing in their desire to help.

Visitor

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18 Messages

3 years ago

So, just for my clarity - are you in CSA?

In my case, correct, I'm good where I am, and obviously I don't have any recent logs showing the misconfigured throttling on comcast's side, since I no longer send directly to comcast.

Also, note that the CSA number is largely useless. I have called twice about this issue in the past. I was connected to those I described - the blockade in front of the actual CSA folks. The person I spoke to had absolutely no idea about how infrastructure email works, or why I would be calling. They asked me to go through scripted diagnosis only useful for folks trying to connect to comcast as clients - regular users. I spent about an hour each time explaining in detail the specifics. They would not put me through to those who are competent to deal with the issue.

Good luck, troubleshooter2021. If you have success, I'll be very interested to know. Frontline support is eager to help, and I appreciate the efforts. But in my experience, it's been a waste of time - I mean, just look at the details in my first post. The information there is enough for someone in CSA to at least acknowledge the problem, if not fix it. They are the same details I tried communicating with CSA on the phone (and why telephone is absolutely not the best way to communicate this information - but you CANNOT email CSA, at all, you MUST call).

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