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MoCA filter

Regular Contributor

MoCA filter

Lots of discussion about MoCA filters has caught my attention.  I have a DVR and an Xi3, both off a splitter.  I do not have an amp.  Signals look good, although the DS receive is a tad high (8.4). I am not experiencing an errors or issues that I'm aware of.

 

Do I need a filter for an even better signal?  Are there other benefits to having one?  If so, do I just head down to my local SC and grab one?

Gold Problem Solver

Re: MoCA filter

The MoCA filter has nothing to do with improving signals. However if you don't have one installed, you should.

The MoCA filter has a couple of purposes. It prevents your neighbors from seeing what you are watching when you watch recordings from your DVR. It also prevents the MoCA signals from leaking outside of your house and interfering with your neighbors MoCA signals.

Simply put, the MoCA filter keeps your MoCA signals within your house...

Not sure if the local service centers have them.


lawnguru wrote:

Lots of discussion about MoCA filters has caught my attention.  I have a DVR and an Xi3, both off a splitter.  I do not have an amp.  Signals look good, although the DS receive is a tad high (8.4). I am not experiencing an errors or issues that I'm aware of.

 

Do I need a filter for an even better signal?  Are there other benefits to having one?  If so, do I just head down to my local SC and grab one?





Regular Contributor

Re: MoCA filter

Thank you sir.  I will check with SC.  Maybe I can see if Comcast can pop one in the mail.


RickGr4 wrote:

The MoCA filter has nothing to do with improving signals. However if you don't have one installed, you should.

The MoCA filter has a couple of purposes. It prevents your neighbors from seeing what you are watching when you watch recordings from your DVR. It also prevents the MoCA signals from leaking outside of your house and interfering with your neighbors MoCA signals.

Simply put, the MoCA filter keeps your MoCA signals within your house...

Not sure if the local service centers have them.


lawnguru wrote:

Lots of discussion about MoCA filters has caught my attention.  I have a DVR and an Xi3, both off a splitter.  I do not have an amp.  Signals look good, although the DS receive is a tad high (8.4). I am not experiencing an errors or issues that I'm aware of.

 

Do I need a filter for an even better signal?  Are there other benefits to having one?  If so, do I just head down to my local SC and grab one?






 

Regular Contributor

Re: MoCA filter

The official position from the chat person is that a tech has to install the filter.  I think I can be trusted to disconnect the incoming cable and install the filter.  With good signals and a solid picture on two TVs, I'm reluctant to pay for a truck roll for a $5 part.

Silver Problem Solver

Re: MoCA filter

Hmm.  i assume they told you it would be something like $35 to install the filter?  I'm curious because I would like to be able to provide credible information on this forum.

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Regular Contributor

Re: MoCA filter

I was not quoted a price (I didn't ask).  The chat person suggested I call to make an appointment to have it installed.


RobertWy wrote:

Hmm.  i assume they told you it would be something like $35 to install the filter?  I'm curious because I would like to be able to provide credible information on this forum.


 

Silver Problem Solver

Re: MoCA filter

When I self installed an X1 DVR, a tech came an installed the filter at the ground block a day or two later free of charge. Didn't see him do it, just noticed it later. Are you sure you don't have one on there already?

 

I'd also add I've installed X1 in two locations, same thing happened. The tech arrived the next day or so to install the filter. At least in my area it seems a tech is booked to do this automatically as part of the upgrade process.

Regular Contributor

Re: MoCA filter

Well, maybe I do have one.  Everything is buried, and the ground block is in my basement,  I do have the little  green "tower" at the end of the driveway. Would he install one there?

 

ok, the $64k question...any way to tell besides a visual inspection?  I can also call and see if there's  service call associated with my account.

Silver Problem Solver

Re: MoCA filter

Guess it's possible they stuck it in the tower... Smiley Happy Mine is installed outside in a flimsy open box on the customer side of the ground block.

Silver Problem Solver

Re: MoCA filter

I have a picture of a couple of filters if that helps:

 

MoCA.png

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Regular Contributor

Re: MoCA filter

Thank you RobertWy. Nothing inside.  The outside box is locked, and I'm not going to try to get in there!

Regular Contributor

Re: MoCA filter


Paraniod wrote:

When I self installed an X1 DVR, a tech came an installed the filter at the ground block a day or two later free of charge. Didn't see him do it, just noticed it later. Are you sure you don't have one on there already?

 

I'd also add I've installed X1 in two locations, same thing happened. The tech arrived the next day or so to install the filter. At least in my area it seems a tech is booked to do this automatically as part of the upgrade process.


Same here.  Did a self install.  A few days later I noticed that the filter had been installed by the ground block where the cable comes into the house.  They will install it wherever is easiest for them.  If there's no splice in the cable at the house, they'll put it on the pole or in the pedestal (the green box).

Frequent Visitor

Re: MoCA filter

Best practice is actually to put it at the input port of the splitter in the house. This prevents the 1GHz+ MoCA signal from leaking from marginal cables and connections. It's simply a low-pass filter that blocks anything above 1GHz and below 1.5GHz from passing through in either direction. 

 

Typical example: http://www.cisco.com/c/dam/en/us/products/collateral/video/filters/7016817.pdf

 

BTW, there's nothing sacred about using 'Comcast provided' MoCA POE filters... they are pretty much industry standardized, and available on Amazon or eBay for $6 to $10

 

I, for one, do not appreciate having Comcast's technicians come into my house - who know far less than I do about what they are attempting to do... they have proven that exact point several times to me... they are grossly under-trained. 

 

That said, about 6-8 months ago, I had the surprise of my life, and an actually encouraging and intellectual conversation with one technician who had knowledge of EVERY detail and aspec I discussed with him... it was a VERY rare ocassion.

 

(I come from a 30 year EE design engineering background with years of RF and IT experience, so not your ordinary consumer)

 

I had my X1 DVR installed over a year ago (no self-install available back then), and the tech did NOT install the MoCA POE filter. It was only this past week when I discovered the need for one, as I upgraded to AnyRoom DVR system, utilizing the "Xi3" slave unit, in combination with the "Xb3" Gateway and "XG1-A" DVR.  The slave unit would NOT "attach" reliably to the MoCA NC (network coordinator) no matter what. It DID however find several other MoCA devices, and paired up with them!! (neighbors!!!)

 

When the tech originally installed my X1, he also replaced my own amplified 1GHz 8 port splitter with a nearly identical "Comcast approved" unit (I needed 5 cable outlets, most occupied by DTA's and one Silicondust cable card tuner).

 

Amplified splitters are pretty much a no-no with MoCA... they have horrible reverse path loss at 1GHz.  I had to replace it with a 1GHz passive splitter (only 4-ports this time), with my MoCA POE filter on the input port. There was actually plenty of signal strength to overcome the -7dB lossses of the splitter. 

 

Once this was done, ZERO problems... and my MoCA NC now only 'sees' my in-house MoCA units!

 

(Side note - always terminate un-used amplified OR passive cable splitter ports with proper screw-on 75Ohm terminators. This prevents signal reflections from the mis-matched impedances of an open port)

 

Expert

Re: MoCA filter


ronbot wrote:

Best practice is actually to put it at the input port of the splitter in the house. This prevents the 1GHz+ MoCA signal from leaking from marginal cables and connections. It's simply a low-pass filter that blocks anything above 1GHz and below 1.5GHz from passing through in either direction. 

 

Typical example: http://www.cisco.com/c/dam/en/us/products/collateral/video/filters/7016817.pdf

 

BTW, there's nothing sacred about using 'Comcast provided' MoCA POE filters... they are pretty much industry standardized, and available on Amazon or eBay for $6 to $10

 

I, for one, do not appreciate having Comcast's technicians come into my house - who know far less than I do about what they are attempting to do... they have proven that exact point several times to me... they are grossly under-trained. 

 

That said, about 6-8 months ago, I had the surprise of my life, and an actually encouraging and intellectual conversation with one technician who had knowledge of EVERY detail and aspec I discussed with him... it was a VERY rare ocassion.

 

(I come from a 30 year EE design engineering background with years of RF and IT experience, so not your ordinary consumer)

 

I had my X1 DVR installed over a year ago (no self-install available back then), and the tech did NOT install the MoCA POE filter. It was only this past week when I discovered the need for one, as I upgraded to AnyRoom DVR system, utilizing the "Xi3" slave unit, in combination with the "Xb3" Gateway and "XG1-A" DVR.  The slave unit would NOT "attach" reliably to the MoCA NC (network coordinator) no matter what. It DID however find several other MoCA devices, and paired up with them!! (neighbors!!!)

 

When the tech originally installed my X1, he also replaced my own amplified 1GHz 8 port splitter with a nearly identical "Comcast approved" unit (I needed 5 cable outlets, most occupied by DTA's and one Silicondust cable card tuner).

 

Amplified splitters are pretty much a no-no with MoCA... they have horrible reverse path loss at 1GHz.  I had to replace it with a 1GHz passive splitter (only 4-ports this time), with my MoCA POE filter on the input port. There was actually plenty of signal strength to overcome the -7dB lossses of the splitter. 

 

Once this was done, ZERO problems... and my MoCA NC now only 'sees' my in-house MoCA units!

 

(Side note - always terminate un-used amplified OR passive cable splitter ports with proper screw-on 75Ohm terminators. This prevents signal reflections from the mis-matched impedances of an open port)

 


I would add two things to your well written response. first that the newer ground block MoCA filters seem to be a better design (grounds cable as well as being a low pass filter (not a notch filter as described), and that it is important on the commscope amps to use the lower end of the numbered cable connectors for maximum MoCA signal distribution. I emailed commscope and an engineer explained that the current design for MoCA distribution is via crosstalk and that the best (worst crosstalk) MoCA connections are at the end of the board with the lowest cable connection numbers. For those reading this that are not techs, crosstalk is something the designers try to minimize/prevent. At least it finally made sense on why they want the longest runs on the lower numbers since the long run attenuation would be somewhat adjusted for in the higher MoCA leakage on the lower ports. 



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I am just a customer, volunteering my time to help other customers here in the Forums.
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New Poster

Re: MoCA filter

I appreciate finding this post ... after 4 calls to Comcast support.

 

All persons I spoke with had no idea what MoCa is and seem to have never heard the term point of entry filter.

 

Pretty typical for Comcast "customer service" = They were polite, did not speak english well, had no technical background, nor the abioity to transfer a call.

Silver Problem Solver

Re: MoCA filter


SeattleUser wrote:

I appreciate finding this post ... after 4 calls to Comcast support.

 

All persons I spoke with had no idea what MoCa is and seem to have never heard the term point of entry filter.

 

Pretty typical for Comcast "customer service" = They were polite, did not speak english well, had no technical background, nor the abioity to transfer a call.


Next time insist on speaking to tech support.  Tell them yiou want a tech visit to check your signals.

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Regular Contributor

Re: MoCA filter

I had never heard the term Point of Entry filter, either, until a couple of months ago. In a MoCa discussion, someone wrote PoE, and I thought that they were referring to Power over Ethernet

 

You can always install a MoCa splitter, which is a splitter with a MoCa filter on the input. they just look like regular splitters.


CIAO!

Ed N.
Expert

Re: MoCA filter

I've not yet seen a splitter that had a built in moca 'filter'.

 

The POE (point of entry) MoCA filter is also called a reflector in that the MoCA signal is kept intside the plant and the device keeps the MoCA level higher as it can't escape the home wiring 'plant'. 



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Gold Problem Solver

Re: MoCA filter


Topic now Closed.