@mvenanzi wrote:
@jmar76 wrote:
I get what you're saying, but that's kinda really playing with semantics because if not for the ITC ruling they would not have feared future legal action. So based solely on Comcast's statement taken in context, they removed the feature because of the ITC ruling and because of fear of future legal action. All ties together.Sure, but if comcast is actually using patented technology without paying the licence fee, then its no different than stealing. If someone was using comcast cable without paying, don't you think comcast would go after them. I kind of believe comcast is using the technology due to the past when they were using a Rovi tech after the licence agreement expired. comcast replaced the tech with another's.
Actually, that is in dispute, not a definitive legal ruling. Comcast claims their current technology was indepenently developed, while Rovi/Tivo claims they own intellectual rights to all online TV guides and remote DVR functions regardless of if it uses any part of their code base or not. Based upon that assumption I would expect Ford to be able to sue every other car manufacturer that makes their cars on an assembly line.
Again, the ITC does not have jurisdiction over Comcast offering this service. That falls under Federal patent law requiring a Federal court to agree with Rovi. The ITC isn't even a court, it's a government commission intended to manage trade imports. In this case the ITC is probably overstepping it's charter, but all they ruled is that Comcast cannot import devices with this capability. In theory Comcast could use a US manufacturer to build their boxes and continue not only offering the service, but deploy new non-imported boxes too.
This is without a doubt, Comcast Legal playing a legal game using their customer's pain as fodder to influence the Federal courts. It isn't to avoid future legal action, that is already in play. It is to help prove their Federal case point that this patent is invalid and harms consumers, hence their need to artificially cause their customers this pain.
@PRGeno wrote:
@mvenanzi wrote:
@jmar76 wrote:
I get what you're saying, but that's kinda really playing with semantics because if not for the ITC ruling they would not have feared future legal action. So based solely on Comcast's statement taken in context, they removed the feature because of the ITC ruling and because of fear of future legal action. All ties together.Sure, but if comcast is actually using patented technology without paying the licence fee, then its no different than stealing. If someone was using comcast cable without paying, don't you think comcast would go after them. I kind of believe comcast is using the technology due to the past when they were using a Rovi tech after the licence agreement expired. comcast replaced the tech with another's.
Actually, that is in dispute, not a definitive legal ruling. Comcast claims their current technology was indepenently developed, while Rovi/Tivo claims they own intellectual rights to all online TV guides and remote DVR functions regardless of if it uses any part of their code base or not. Based upon that assumption I would expect Ford to be able to sue every other car manufacturer that makes their cars on an assembly line.
Again, the ITC does not have jurisdiction over Comcast offering this service. That falls under Federal patent law requiring a Federal court to agree with Rovi. The ITC isn't even a court, it's a government commission intended to manage trade imports. In this case the ITC is probably overstepping it's charter, but all they ruled is that Comcast cannot import devices with this capability. In theory Comcast could use a US manufacturer to build their boxes and continue not only offering the service, but deploy new non-imported boxes too.
This is without a doubt, Comcast Legal playing a legal game using their customer's pain as fodder to influence the Federal courts. It isn't to avoid future legal action, that is already in play. It is to help prove their Federal case point that this patent is invalid and harms consumers, hence their need to artificially cause their customers this pain.
Where did you get this fact from "Rovi/Tivo claims they own intellectual rights to all online TV guides and remote DVR functions regardless of if it uses any part of their code base or not"? I haven't read anything like this comment.
Ford could only sue if they have an exsisting patent.
Yes, the itc can not control comcast's offerings, but it was the shortest path to start the stopping of them using the tech. Legal action would have taken a lot longer than the itc case.
Yes they could use US made boxes or they could even import the foreign boxes with the tech in question removed.
Your comments about using us customers as fodder is just speculation unless you can come up with some proof. It doesn't harm customers, just comcast loosing income by customers leaving, and I don't understand how removing the functionality could in any way prove the that this patent is invalid
Comcast could just pay a licence fee to tivo while the battle continues.
@jmar76 wrote:
And just a follow-up to that, this is the original article I read about this and I'll paste the part about dvr recordings for those that don't want to read the entire article.
"The ITC’s final ruling upheld Rovi Corp.’s claim that Comcast violated patents on technologies that let users schedule set-top DVR recordings remotely via mobile device."
https://www.fiercecable.com/cable/comcast-loses-patent-battle-against-tivo-can-t-import-or-sell-x1-s...
The statement "The ITC’s final ruling upheld Rovi Corp.’s claim that Comcast violated patents on technologies that let users schedule set-top DVR recordings remotely via mobile device." doesn't have to mean code, it could be reffering to the way it done.
@jmar76 wrote:
Ok, I've seen you have said that a number of times now on this thread and I don't dispute what you're saying about the ITC having no jurisdiction over what Comcast does with their existing X1 equipment and technology already in use in the US. But my point of contention is that perhaps in addition or maybe even separately on its own from your customer pain and suffering argument you believe Comcast will use in court, on the flip side seeing as this is a government commission and cases are reviewed by actual federal judges, on the flip side in future legal proceedings Rovi could argue in court if they seek damages that Comcast continued using technology related to patents in dispute after the ITC ruled against them, because in the first article I read about this situation, it mentioned that not only was software being used by the X1 boxes related to the patents being disputed, but also the functionality of scheduling recordings remotely. In other words, if Comcast in any way down the road could have this decision used against them in court for continuing to offer this functionality to existing customers and lose more on the business side of it, perhaps they are proceeding with caution.
I understand and agree that could be a motivating factor because Rovi, as part of their Federal case, is going after past use licensing fees. So Comcast may want to stop the bleeding in the case of the Fed ruling against them too.
But a couple things to note: Rovi chose to use the ITC because the ITC typically rules more quickly because they have a lower legal bar to meet. The ITC is intended to protect US companies from patent infringment by foreign companies so the ITC tends to rule against the perceived infringers more often, regardless of the validity of the patent or fair use of common concepts rather than any real infringement.
I would also agree they want the ITC to be an influence with the Federal cases, but not because a judge will take the ITC ruling into account. It's more likely a Federal judge won't pay any attention to the ITC. Rovi knows this but instead hopes the ITC ruling will influence Comcast to settle before the Federal case even really gets going. That's what patent trolls do, try to get a settlement well before their case goes to trial.
Their thought is restricting new devices from being imported will prevent Comcast from future deployment revenue and that will push Comcast to settle, and maybe even agree to a long term licensing cotract long before the slow moving Federal courts do anything.
Regardless, killing this feature is not necessary at this time and Comcast chose to do this, rather than being legally required to do it
@jmar76 wrote:
Also agree about the licensing fee. If I were to take a guess I guess maybe Comcast just didn't think the remote recording functionality was that big a deal to a lot of customers but rather just some novelty that they offered. That is until now, now they know how much people love it lol.
Could be, but when they took away the previous web site and replaced it with the streaming web site, a lot of functionality was removed and it caused a much bigger upset here on the forums and calls to tech support. I think the only missing function they gave us back was the favorites list.
"now they know how much people love it lol." - but does comcast care?
@mvenanzi wrote:
@PRGeno wrote:
@mvenanzi wrote:
@jmar76 wrote:
I get what you're saying, but that's kinda really playing with semantics because if not for the ITC ruling they would not have feared future legal action. So based solely on Comcast's statement taken in context, they removed the feature because of the ITC ruling and because of fear of future legal action. All ties together.Sure, but if comcast is actually using patented technology without paying the licence fee, then its no different than stealing. If someone was using comcast cable without paying, don't you think comcast would go after them. I kind of believe comcast is using the technology due to the past when they were using a Rovi tech after the licence agreement expired. comcast replaced the tech with another's.
Actually, that is in dispute, not a definitive legal ruling. Comcast claims their current technology was indepenently developed, while Rovi/Tivo claims they own intellectual rights to all online TV guides and remote DVR functions regardless of if it uses any part of their code base or not. Based upon that assumption I would expect Ford to be able to sue every other car manufacturer that makes their cars on an assembly line.
Again, the ITC does not have jurisdiction over Comcast offering this service. That falls under Federal patent law requiring a Federal court to agree with Rovi. The ITC isn't even a court, it's a government commission intended to manage trade imports. In this case the ITC is probably overstepping it's charter, but all they ruled is that Comcast cannot import devices with this capability. In theory Comcast could use a US manufacturer to build their boxes and continue not only offering the service, but deploy new non-imported boxes too.
This is without a doubt, Comcast Legal playing a legal game using their customer's pain as fodder to influence the Federal courts. It isn't to avoid future legal action, that is already in play. It is to help prove their Federal case point that this patent is invalid and harms consumers, hence their need to artificially cause their customers this pain.
Where did you get this fact from "Rovi/Tivo claims they own intellectual rights to all online TV guides and remote DVR functions regardless of if it uses any part of their code base or not"? I haven't read anything like this comment.
Ford could only sue if they have an exsisting patent.
Yes, the itc can not control comcast's offerings, but it was the shortest path to start the stopping of them using the tech. Legal action would have taken a lot longer than the itc case.
Yes they could use US made boxes or they could even import the foreign boxes with the tech in question removed.
Your comments about using us customers as fodder is just speculation unless you can come up with some proof. It doesn't harm customers, just comcast loosing income by customers leaving, and I don't understand how removing the functionality could in any way prove the that this patent is invalid
Comcast could just pay a licence fee to tivo while the battle continues.
You're right, I am speculating, as is anyone else trying to figure out why they did this. I've read quite a bit on this case since the loss a couple days ago. In my opinion the best source I found so far was this Forbes article:
According to Rovi's claim "In the complaint, Rovi accused Comcast of refusing to renew its licensing fee to continue to use Rovi’s Interactive Program Guide, or IPG, technology. The company needs a license for its X1 IPG product, Rovi says."
That is the basic guide function with the remote DVR function claim being in addition to that.
Comcast is claiming consumer protection and public health and welfare: “Consumers value these products for the wide variety of programming -- news, sports, entertainment, and health and safety information -- they are able to access through the functionality provided by STBs.” "Under Section 337, the ITC also must consider public health and welfare, and the impact of an exclusion order on competition in the marketplace before issuing an exclusion order."
Hence my speculation that Comcast want to use customer disatisfaction and pain as part of their argument. To do so, they need to have some customer disatisfaction and pain, and therefore might have chosen to shut off the feature to get some good old fashion social media rage going.
Or the Comcast lawyers might just be nice guys trying to foster some good will with Rovi's lawyers. That's possible too I guess. But regardless, why would they pay the licensing fees if they believe they have a case proving they are not infringing?
@PRGeno wrote:You're right, I am speculating, as is anyone else trying to figure out why they did this. I've read quite a bit on this case since the loss a couple days ago. In my opinion the best source I found so far was this Forbes article:
According to Rovi's claim "In the complaint, Rovi accused Comcast of refusing to renew its licensing fee to continue to use Rovi’s Interactive Program Guide, or IPG, technology. The company needs a license for its X1 IPG product, Rovi says."
That is the basic guide function with the remote DVR function claim being in addition to that.
Comcast is claiming consumer protection and public health and welfare: “Consumers value these products for the wide variety of programming -- news, sports, entertainment, and health and safety information -- they are able to access through the functionality provided by STBs.” "Under Section 337, the ITC also must consider public health and welfare, and the impact of an exclusion order on competition in the marketplace before issuing an exclusion order."
Hence my speculation that Comcast want to use customer disatisfaction and pain as part of their argument. To do so, they need to have some customer disatisfaction and pain, and therefore might have chosen to shut off the feature to get some good old fashion social media rage going.
Or the Comcast lawyers might just be nice guys trying to foster some good will with Rovi's lawyers. That's possible too I guess. But regardless, why would they pay the licensing fees if they believe they have a case proving they are not infringing?
But if they believe they have a case proving they are not infringing why get rid of the functionality now? To me, Comcast removing the functionality makes them look guilty.
Well worst case is we have to wait till September - From the article "With both patents scheduled to expire next September"
@mvenanzi wrote:
But if they believe they have a case proving they are not infringing why get rid of the functionality now? To me, Comcast removing the functionality makes them look guilty.
Well worst case is we have to wait till September - From the article "With both patents scheduled to expire next September"
I agree, it does make them look guilty, which is why it makes no sense to me that they would kill the feature unless they intended to foster customer discontent for some perceived legal advantage down the road.
These actions in light of the fact the patent expires in less than a year is also perplexing. I'm certain there is way more to this than we know, so all we can do is speculate. But this all seems so unnecessary and petty.
One thing I do know is this feature is the only purpose I have for the web interface and Stream app. Without it the entire X1 system is far less useful to me and in my opinion a giant step backwards. I find no use in most of the more touted features like voice search and STB apps. But I used the remote DVR scheduling function almost every day and this is a huge loss for my use case.
@PRGeno wrote:I agree, it does make them look guilty, which is why it makes no sense to me that they would kill the feature unless they intended to foster customer discontent for some perceived legal advantage down the road.
These actions in light of the fact the patent expires in less than a year is also perplexing. I'm certain there is way more to this than we know, so all we can do is speculate. But this all seems so unnecessary and petty.
One thing I do know is this feature is the only purpose I have for the web interface and Stream app. Without it the entire X1 system is far less useful to me and in my opinion a giant step backwards. I find no use in most of the more touted features like voice search and STB apps. But I used the remote DVR scheduling function almost every day and this is a huge loss for my use case.
Yes I don't think anyone knows the whole story.
I also only used the web site to manage recordings, it was the only feature worth using. With the previous web site, I only used my remote control to turn things on and control the tv volume, I used the web site for everything else: finding shows in the guide, changing channels, setting recordings, managing recordings, etc. When they replaced it with what they had a few days ago, I only used it to set recordings. Now I have no use for it.
Sure seems like comcast is going backwards . . .
So we aren't getting all if the services we pay for. This was one of the things we really loved about the app. Keep in mind that not ALL shows are On Demand - so your solution is terrible. Hallmark, for example, doesn't put any of their Christmas movies on-demand. Are you going to give everyone a credit on their bill? You should-you've taken yet another great feature away from your customers. First it was the ability to have multiple email accounts and now this. After being a customer for 18+ years---not happy right now.
This app has been working well for me for quite a long time. When I go to "Live TV" all channels and select a show - I was given the option to Watch or Record. Today - the Record option is no longer there. I tried signing out and signing back in - uninstalling and reinstalling the app - restarting my iphone. Nothing works.I have the Xfinity Remote app - which I rarely use - but that has also eliminated the "Record" option from its listings. Hopefully Comcast is aware of this or there is a fix? I appreciate any help anyone can offer. Thank you
Great. Another royal screwup for $200 plus per month. Thanks for nothing, Comcast.
@truthseeker719 wrote:This app has been working well for me for quite a long time. When I go to "Live TV" all channels and select a show - I was given the option to Watch or Record. Today - the Record option is no longer there. I tried signing out and signing back in - uninstalling and reinstalling the app - restarting my iphone. Nothing works.I have the Xfinity Remote app - which I rarely use - but that has also eliminated the "Record" option from its listings. Hopefully Comcast is aware of this or there is a fix? I appreciate any help anyone can offer. Thank you
Function removed
Go here: http://forums.xfinity.com/t5/Stream-TV-App/Can-t-set-recordings-from-stream-app/td-p/3006332
Why can't we record anything on the xfinity stream app! We used to be able to do this! Can someone contact the people who can fix this as I have tried but can't seem to connect
to Help !
@jmar76 wrote:
We can only hope. One thing I know though is that Comcast does care about their reputation, because I used to work there. And because I used to work there, I know how much we were encouraged to emphasize this feature to customers as a major selling point for the X1 dvr. And with everything Comcast has dealt with over the years regarding their reputation and everything they've been doing lately to try to improve it, I doubt they'll let themselves take a nationwide hit over not being able to provide something they've been pushing so hard, and when I say hit, I don't mean complaints, I mean losing many customers before they figure out how they want to resolve this. That is my sincere hope anyway. People get mad at Comcast for a lot of reasons, and having been on both sides of the fence, I understand that. I also understand that MOST of the employees really do care whether people believe it or not.
Employees I believe do care from talking to support, but what about upper management?
All,
Please see the Best Answer to this post. It provides the latest information on why this feature has been removed. Thank you.
If there are any changes we will update that Answer.
I contacted Comcast today and spoke to 2 customer service staff and clearly they have no clue as to why this has happened. One felt it was a copyright infringement with apple. Another one didn’t know it had happened and she checked her phone and was upset as she sets up all her recordings with this app. Comcast has not told their employees about this yet.
I asked the same question.
@Ricky1057 wrote:
Will Comcast be lowering customers' bills since Comcast has removed the promised feature to remotely record using a computer app or phone?
Hi ASHarrow,
Due to a legal ruling, for the foreseeable future, we are removing the remote scheduling of DVR recording features. We apologize for the inconvenience, we are actively pursuing an appeal of the ruling.
If you’re away from your DVR box and cannot schedule a recording and miss a show, check to see if it's available on XFINITY On Demand! We apologize again for the inconvenience.
Hi Paloam,
In regard to the recording option on your devices, due to a legal ruling, for the foreseeable future, we are removing the remote scheduling of DVR recording features. We apologize for the inconvenience, we are actively pursuing an appeal of the ruling.
If you’re away from your DVR box and cannot schedule a recording and miss a show, check to see if it's available on XFINITY On Demand! We apologize again for the inconvenience.
Calsyms,
The option to record is no longer available due to a legal ruling, for the foreseeable future, we are removing the remote scheduling of DVR recording features. We apologize for the inconvenience, we are actively pursuing an appeal of the ruling.
If you’re away from your DVR box and cannot schedule a recording and miss a show, check to see if it's available on XFINITY On Demand! We apologize again for the inconvenience.
The record button is gone due to a legal ruling in a case with Tivo. Sounds like this affects Comcast only. So others like CenturyLink, DirectTV, and so on are not affected by this ruling, and presumably still have the option to record.
If this feature is important to you (as it is to me), then seems the next step is to confirm availablility with another provider, and switch over from Comcast.
Hello, we apologize there was no notification. Due to a judicial ruling, we are disabling this feature while we pursue an appeal.
Why can't I record shows from my computer?
The abilty to stream is useless to me without ability to record. Your response from comcast is tipical. There commercials talk of great service to their customers; however, their people have no clue as to what is going on . They need to compensate customers for deleting the record feature.
Once again comcast did not post my comment regarding this record problem. Unsat
"Customer satisfaction"? "Deduction on your bill....?" I was having a bad day, but just reading this made me laugh. Comcast cares about one thing ONLY; taking our money! Want proof? Just Google "companies with the worst customer service". Guess who leads the pack year after year?
Where had the RECORD button disappeared to? Only button now showing is ‘watch now’
Don’t understand how there would be a legal difference between setting to record on physical remote and setting to record on using tv remote app
This is really bad news; I am wondering if anyone else, AT&T, Direct TV or other major providers took the same approach.
If I was out for dinner and I saw that a game was good, I would record it and watch it later that evening; sports is NOT ON DEMAND. This is very disturbing.
Any other comments!
The recording function was removed without any warning - this, and the removal itself are unacceptable. Xfinity can deliver high quality services and has good apps, but it is evidently run by incompetent operators. This is not the first time I came to this conclusion. Starting the Xfinity service was one long series of mishaps including unintended removal of channels.
SHAME on you!!!!
I called to coomplain about the same issue today and received the same nonsensical answer from customer service. I use this feature frequently to set up recordings of live sporting events which cannot be played "On Demand" at a later time. I do not stream to my cell phone, I do not stream to my iPad so this makes the stream app worthless to me. What possible legal issue could possibly be involved here?? Please provide additional information. Thiss whole explanation reeks on BOGUS!!
@veetee76b wrote:
The subject says it all. There is no longer a “Record” option on the Stream App on my IPhone and IPad since the latest App upgrade a couple days ago. Is this a bug or what? Will I no longer be able to set a recording when away from the house?
Go here, join the party: http://forums.xfinity.com/t5/Stream-TV-App/Can-t-set-recordings-from-stream-app/td-p/3006332