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1st hop latency?

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Regular Contributor

1st hop latency?

just wondering, the first hop outside my home should be pretty low right, but how low? lately the jitter's been a little high:

Ping statistics for 68.85.144.193:
Packets: Sent = 60, Received = 60, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 9ms, Maximum = 74ms, Average = 33ms

this causes every game i play to have jittery ping. do i have a legitimate complaint here, or am i just stuck with this latency?

Silver Problem Solver

Re: 1st hop latency?

That looks pretty ragged for the first hop.  Is that through your own  Router?

If so, can you bypass your router to see if it cleans up?

Remember to power cycle or reset your modem each time you connect a new device to it.

Regular Contributor

Re: 1st hop latency?

this was taken with a direct connection to the modem -_-

i checked to see how it was late last night, around 3-4am, and it seems to calm down during offpeak hours. could this be caused by large amounts of traffic through this particular router or what might cause this?

 

i also ran a trace to google.

 

1 * * * Request timed out.
2 7 ms 61 ms 29 ms ge-3-14-ur04.federalway.wa.seattle.comcast.net [68.85.144.205]
3 10 ms 10 ms 15 ms 68.86.177.233
4 34 ms 10 ms 11 ms pos-1-10-0-0-cr01.seattle.wa.ibone.comcast.net [68.86.93.97]
5 41 ms 11 ms 12 ms pos-0-1-0-0-pe01.seattle.wa.ibone.comcast.net [68.86.85.38]
6 43 ms 23 ms 13 ms 75.149.231.90
7 27 ms 9 ms 36 ms 209.85.249.34
8 18 ms 15 ms 11 ms 66.249.94.201
9 17 ms 19 ms 30 ms 216.239.46.200
10 22 ms 18 ms 19 ms 216.239.48.137
11 51 ms 28 ms 40 ms 72.14.232.6
12 48 ms 25 ms 17 ms pw-in-f106.1e100.net [74.125.53.106]

 

problem has started earlier than usual today. i pinged my default gateway and even that has sketchy results.

 

Ping statistics for 76.121.240.1:
    Packets: Sent = 40, Received = 40, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 9ms, Maximum = 48ms, Average = 25ms

Regular Contributor

Re: 1st hop latency?

Same problem I have in my area, terrible pings out the gate from the first hop, cmts, headend...and it settles down late at night when traffic subsides, it usually boils down to too many subscribers & insufficient infrastructure.  It seems they can't lay fiber, split nodes, deploy architecture fast enough to keep up with the subscriber adoption rate & the money they happily rake in.

Expert

Re: 1st hop latency?

FWIW here, and if it is actually a capacity/congestion issue, A virtual/logical node split can be performed at far less cost for infrastructure than an actual physical node split involving the laying of additional fiber or the lighting of existing dark fiber. I'm pretty sure that in most systems the engineers that designed the plant have a reserve amount of dark fiber strands which are already in place when the plant was being planned for future capacity needs. In addition, DOCSIS 3 alone will help to supplement capacity concerns. Are you in a DOCSIS 3 upgraded area and using a D3 capable modem ? Also, it takes many subs/neighbors on a particular segment to complain about the same issue in order for them to listen and to increase capacity. Are your neighbors complaining as well ?



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Regular Contributor

Re: 1st hop latency?

yes i believe i am in a D3 area. i'm using an sb6120 and i've been given the option for the 50mb package. as for my neighbors complaining, i doubt they would. its only really noticeable if youre a gamer. most of my neighbors are older and i'd think they only use the internet for email, websites, etc.

Regular Contributor

Re: 1st hop latency?

bump

 

anyone with any constructive advice?

Silver Problem Solver

Re: 1st hop latency?

Sorry, this seems to have fallenthrought thecracks.  I will notify an Admin to see if Comcast can resolve this for you.  Probably no response today or monday, but keep an eye on your thread here and your email for a response.

 

Regular Contributor

Re: 1st hop latency?

thanks James, appreciate it. i noticed my 1st hop has been two different ip's, is that normal? the one in my trace is 68.85.144.205, where as right now i ran a trace and got 68.85.144.193. must depend on the destination i'm guessing? here's how it's looking today:

 

Ping statistics for 68.85.144.193:
    Packets: Sent = 40, Received = 40, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 6ms, Maximum = 87ms, Average = 23ms

Expert

Re: 1st hop latency?

FWIW, it's still the same device in the same exact physical location.



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Regular Contributor

Re: 1st hop latency?

oh ok gotcha, only thing that shows different is the ip then huh? good piece of info to know

Bronze Problem Solver

Re: 1st hop latency?

 


@daaanE wrote:

oh ok gotcha, only thing that shows different is the ip then huh? good piece of info to know


 

Look again and you'll see that you guys are talking about the second hop. The first hop showed up thusly:

 

1 * * * Request timed out.

 

It isn't sending back a response. You can probably ping the first hop and get a little more info about what's going on. It's the Default Gateway you can find in your TCP settings by doing "ipconfig/all" at the command prompt. It'll end with .1. It's true that the Default Gateway has different IP addresses depending on the address blocks it's servicing, but it'll always have the same IP address from your point of view... well, for as long as Comcast keeps assigning you the same Default Gateway.

Regular Contributor

Re: 1st hop latency?

wouldn't the first hop be my modem?

Expert

Re: 1st hop latency?

No. Modems are layer two bridges that don't show up in traces..



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Regular Contributor

Re: 1st hop latency?

ah, thanks for that info. so if i ping my default gateway and notice the issue, does that mean it's even more local than the CMTS? i've changed my mac address in my router a few times to be put on new default gateways, but the issue always remains. can someone shed some light on why this is?

 

appreciate the help guys

Expert

Re: 1st hop latency?

By pinging the default gateway interface you've narrowed things down to an issue between the CMTS at your local headend facility and your home. To narrow things down more you could ping the modem's IP addy 192.168.100.1, the router's IP addy (if one is being used), and finally, the loopback address of your computer at 127.0.0.1 which would narrow things down to your NIC and the TCP/IP stack.



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Regular Contributor

Re: 1st hop latency?

ok i gave those a try with a direct connection,

 

modem:

 

Ping statistics for 192.168.100.1:
    Packets: Sent = 20, Received = 20, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 1ms, Maximum = 7ms, Average = 1ms

 

and computer:

 

Ping statistics for 127.0.0.1:
    Packets: Sent = 20, Received = 20, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 0ms, Maximum = 0ms, Average = 0ms

 

looks fine to me, anything else i should check for on my end?

Expert

Re: 1st hop latency?

That looks good for 20 packets. I find that even longer pings are more helpful for coming to conclusions. Say 100 or even 500 pings for that matter.



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Regular Contributor

Re: 1st hop latency?

ran 300 to the modem:

 

Ping statistics for 192.168.100.1:
    Packets: Sent = 300, Received = 300, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 0ms, Maximum = 36ms, Average = 1ms

 

there a reason i get spikes sometimes from my modem?

 

Expert

Re: 1st hop latency?

It's a piece of hardware. Many times those spikes get worse with age. That doesn't look bad though and there is no packet loss which is what usually happens when a modem is failing. Was anything on the computer accessing the internet when you performed those pings. I usually disable all the apps that can access the net and I disconnect the coax when I do that.



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Regular Contributor

Re: 1st hop latency?

i did have a few programs open that maye have been doing something. i tried again without anything open and the coax unplugged but then my modem wouldn't fully boot up.

Expert

Re: 1st hop latency?

Yep. Some makes/models of modems need to be in sync mode in order to be able to access their UI and to be able to return pings.



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Silver Problem Solver

Re: 1st hop latency?

Sometimes you can go into safe mode and do your pongs from there to elimiate some of the programs running in the background.

If you Power cycle your PC and then on power up, start tapping the F8 key onde a second it will come up to a point  where you can use an arrow keey to scroll up to the Safe Mode with Networking item.  Highlight that and hit enter and let it come up into safe Safe Mode with the IP stack enabled.  Hook up the coax and then do your pings to the modem.  This will block the Start up programs that normally come up during the Boot process.

 

Regular Contributor

Re: 1st hop latency?

ok ran it in safe mode and everything looked fine, all pings were 1ms. so i was wondering, if i've changed default gateways 3-4 times now, and i'm still getting these spikes on each gateway, does that mean the issue lies between my home and them somewhere?

 

btw, still haven't heard from comcast/admin

Bronze Problem Solver

Re: 1st hop latency?

 


@daaanE wrote:

ok ran it in safe mode and everything looked fine, all pings were 1ms. so i was wondering, if i've changed default gateways 3-4 times now, and i'm still getting these spikes on each gateway, does that mean the issue lies between my home and them somewhere?

 

btw, still haven't heard from comcast/admin


The issue is probably *with* them. You haven't been changing your default gateway, the same device has a different address depending on which subnet you're in (that's what EG was saying earlier when you guys were mistakenly talking about the second hop). If your default gateway was responding in traceroutes you'd be able to see it by doing a trace to addresses in the various other blocks of addresses you've been assigned; they'll all be one hop away, same as addresses in your current block. Provided the address you trace to is in use. The nature of Ethernet is that the traceroute won't even get underway if the address isn't in use... or recently assigned, or something... there is caching involved.

 

Silver Problem Solver

Re: 1st hop latency?


@daaanE wrote:

ok ran it in safe mode and everything looked fine, all pings were 1ms. so i was wondering, if i've changed default gateways 3-4 times now, and i'm still getting these spikes on each gateway, does that mean the issue lies between my home and them somewhere?

 

btw, still haven't heard from comcast/admin


 

OK Thanks for responding.  Since the lag spikes disappear when you are in Safe Mode, that would say that the issue is with a program that initiates at Power up.

If you go into msconfig and unchdcking "Load Startup Items -- Clidk Apply and OK and then restart your computer

Test to see if Ping times are still good

If So, Go back into MSCONFIG and Click on the Startup Tab  in the Upper Right

Do a binary search for the Startup item that is causing the Lag Spikes

In other words, put a check in half of the items and do the appply, Ok and reboot sequence. 

Still no Spike, put a check in half of the items that are unchecked and go through the process of apply, OK and Restart until you find the Item that is causing your issue.

 

Bronze Problem Solver

Re: 1st hop latency?

 


@JamesR wrote:

@daaanE wrote:

ok ran it in safe mode and everything looked fine, all pings were 1ms. so i was wondering, if i've changed default gateways 3-4 times now, and i'm still getting these spikes on each gateway, does that mean the issue lies between my home and them somewhere?

 

btw, still haven't heard from comcast/admin


 

OK Thanks for responding.  Since the lag spikes disappear when you are in Safe Mode, that would say that the issue is with a program that initiates at Power up.

If you go into msconfig and unchdcking "Load Startup Items -- Clidk Apply and OK and then restart your computer

Test to see if Ping times are still good
If So, Go back into MSCONFIG and Click on the Startup Tab  in the Upper Right
Do a binary search for the Startup item that is causing the Lag Spikes
In other words, put a check in half of the items and do the appply, Ok and reboot sequence.
Still no Spike, put a check in half of the items that are unchecked and go through the process of apply, OK and Restart until you find the Item that is causing your issue.

 


Whoa! I think that starting in safe mode just got rid of a little bit of jitter when he pinged his modem or router.

 

Silver Problem Solver

Re: 1st hop latency?

If So, Go back into MSCONFIG and Click on the Startup Tab  in the Upper Right

Whoa! I think that starting in safe mode just got rid of a little bit of jitter when he pinged his modem or router.

 


Yea My thought is that one or more of the Starup porgrams or services is kicking in and slowing him down intermittently.

 

Expert

Re: 1st hop latency?

It really shouldn't unless it is a bandwidth intensive app. like torrenting. I was merely trying to see if and why his pings to the modem showed some jitter at that time that they were performed.. A possible malware infection could do the same..



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Regular Contributor

Re: 1st hop latency?

ok i've noticed pinging my modem is fine as long as its a direct connection, but through my router i see some small spikes. after powering down my 2nd computer the modem responds fine in or out of safe mode. i tried booting without any startup items and pinged some sites, but my issue is still present. it only seems noticeable in the afternoons to evenings though, not during nonpeak times. coincidence?