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Deleted Posts

I keep posting a possible solution to the Blue Screen/No Signal issue and they keep being deleted.  I'd like to find out why, but I don't see who to ask.

 

I tried going into the forum on posting rules and such and tried clicking on the admin's name to send a message.  But when I got to the private email page, that was a miserable failure.

 

Help, please!

Expert

Re: Deleted Posts


@RMCX wrote:

I keep posting a possible solution to the Blue Screen/No Signal issue and they keep being deleted.  I'd like to find out why, but I don't see who to ask.

 

I tried going into the forum on posting rules and such and tried clicking on the admin's name to send a message.  But when I got to the private email page, that was a miserable failure.

 

Help, please!


I found your post mentioned above (under X1 forum). It showed a device to fix the problem. I believe you might have duplicated your reply which might have been deleted.

 

By the way it is a violation to PM Comcast personnel without asking to PM them in a message.


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Official Employee

Re: Deleted Posts

It’s because you’ve posted the same thing in multiple threads 10 times. Once or twice is good, anything more is getting into spamming the forum (against forum guidelines).

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Contributor

Re: Deleted Posts

I assumed I was helping specific individuals as well as the general population.
Contributor

Re: Deleted Posts

Actually, the more I think about what you've done here, the more upset I get.

 

I came up with a rock-solid solution to a problem (often Comcast-caused!) that's plagued users for years.  It's a solution that will save users the aggravation of hours of relatively useless answers both here and on the phone with your support people.  It's an answer that will save you hours of having to give out the same wrong answers as you have been.

 

I posted the answer to threads that were no more than 90 days or so old and then decided to post a general answer so that it would be more easily available.

 

Instead of being accused of spamming, I had expected something more along the lines of "Wow, that's it!  Thanks!  We're going to make this a sticky so that people won't have to spend more than a few minutes trying to solve their problem and we won't have to be bothered with this one again."

 

You can choose to block this thread; you can choose to ban me from the forum.  But, in any event, rest assured that I will carry this issue onto Customer Service until it is resolved to my satisfaction, or at least until I have made things as uncomfortable for you as you have for me.

 

I, and the users of this forum, pay your salary, not vice-versa.

 

Expert

Re: Deleted Posts


@RMCX wrote:

Actually, the more I think about what you've done here, the more upset I get.

 

I came up with a rock-solid solution to a problem (often Comcast-caused!) that's plagued users for years.  It's a solution that will save users the aggravation of hours of relatively useless answers both here and on the phone with your support people.  It's an answer that will save you hours of having to give out the same wrong answers as you have been.

 

I posted the answer to threads that were no more than 90 days or so old and then decided to post a general answer so that it would be more easily available.

 

Instead of being accused of spamming, I had expected something more along the lines of "Wow, that's it!  Thanks!  We're going to make this a sticky so that people won't have to spend more than a few minutes trying to solve their problem and we won't have to be bothered with this one again."

 

You can choose to block this thread; you can choose to ban me from the forum.  But, in any event, rest assured that I will carry this issue onto Customer Service until it is resolved to my satisfaction, or at least until I have made things as uncomfortable for you as you have for me.

 

I, and the users of this forum, pay your salary, not vice-versa.


the device is always on no matter what the input status is at the moment. that is why it works it downgrades the xg1v4 from 2.2 HDCP. the TV should handle the reboot without an issue. a 'blackbox' that removes video security and blocks 4k/UHD seems counter productive and an unnecessary expense. thoughts?



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Expert

Re: Deleted Posts


@RMCX wrote:

Actually, the more I think about what you've done here, the more upset I get.

 

I came up with a rock-solid solution to a problem (often Comcast-caused!) that's plagued users for years.  It's a solution that will save users the aggravation of hours of relatively useless answers both here and on the phone with your support people.  It's an answer that will save you hours of having to give out the same wrong answers as you have been.

 

I posted the answer to threads that were no more than 90 days or so old and then decided to post a general answer so that it would be more easily available.

 

Instead of being accused of spamming, I had expected something more along the lines of "Wow, that's it!  Thanks!  We're going to make this a sticky so that people won't have to spend more than a few minutes trying to solve their problem and we won't have to be bothered with this one again."

 

You can choose to block this thread; you can choose to ban me from the forum.  But, in any event, rest assured that I will carry this issue onto Customer Service until it is resolved to my satisfaction, or at least until I have made things as uncomfortable for you as you have for me.

 

I, and the users of this forum, pay your salary, not vice-versa.

 


What you could have/should have done is create an original thread with the information so everyone would be able to see it, rather that do a copy/paste of the information into multiple threads [spamming].  While your intentions were good, you ended up running afoul of the Forum Guidelines.  No one is trying to ban you from the Forums.

 

FWIW, Customer Service has no influence in how the Forums are run.  Two completely separate entities, so complaining to them won't accomplish anything.


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Contributor

Re: Deleted Posts

Yes, it's an unnecessary expense (~$40), but the alternative is never knowing when you have to reseat the cable and/or reboot the box.  The wife likes to sit down, turn on the TV and watch her shows.  She most emphatically does not want to have to get up, screw around with a 'device', and potentially fret for several minutes.

 

As to the signal downgrade, if that's (i.e. HDCP 1.4) what your TV supports, that's what it supports.  I agree that the Xfinity box ought to understand that, but the fact of the matter is that it doesn't always.  The problem is further exacerbated by the fact that it might work one day, and then because of the nightly updating of the box, fail the next.

 

(I woke up one day with picture but no sound.  That took hours of time between me, Comcas,t and Sony!  The problem was that Sony had updated their HDCP protocol to 2.2 while Comcast was still on 1.4.)

 

But the net, net is that there can be/is a basic incompatibility between various TV's and the box and to ask people to reboot, replug, update, etc., is what's counterproductive ab initio.

Contributor

Re: Deleted Posts

And, BTW, the wife gets even more upset when she has to do it multiple times a day!!!

 

My background:  50+ years in tech.  Software, hardware, etc.

 

This stuff is so complex and intertwined that when I die, my wife will not be able to watch television!!!

Contributor

Re: Deleted Posts

I can't imagine how many thousands of man-hours have been lost on this problem due to lack of understanding and misinformation on Comcast's part.

 

This information needs to be published as a sticky here and promulgated to EACH AND EVERY Comcast employee who is expected to deal with this issue.

 

It's a 1-2-3:  Check your cable, check your TV firmware, get a 3rd-party signal 'facilitator'.

Expert

Re: Deleted Posts


@RMCX wrote:

Yes, it's an unnecessary expense (~$40), but the alternative is never knowing when you have to reseat the cable and/or reboot the box.  The wife likes to sit down, turn on the TV and watch her shows.  She most emphatically does not want to have to get up, screw around with a 'device', and potentially fret for several minutes.

 

As to the signal downgrade, if that's (i.e. HDCP 1.4) what your TV supports, that's what it supports.  I agree that the Xfinity box ought to understand that, but the fact of the matter is that it doesn't always.  The problem is further exacerbated by the fact that it might work one day, and then because of the nightly updating of the box, fail the next.

 

(I woke up one day with picture but no sound.  That took hours of time between me, Comcas,t and Sony!  The problem was that Sony had updated their HDCP protocol to 2.2 while Comcast was still on 1.4.)

 

But the net, net is that there can be/is a basic incompatibility between various TV's and the box and to ask people to reboot, replug, update, etc., is what's counterproductive ab initio.


HDCP versions are encrypted path hardware/firmware related. the 4k UHD restrictions are enforced for the 4k UHD. by putting a lower (broken) downgrade device will ensure that the extended features not be always available. using such a device is definitely not recommended. the manufacturers are motivated to keep their firmware up to date. It is all about protecting the video (and audio?) enhanced streams from being copied.



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Regular Contributor

Re: Deleted Posts


@RMCX wrote:

Actually, the more I think about what you've done here, the more upset I get.

 

I came up with a rock-solid solution to a problem (often Comcast-caused!) that's plagued users for years.  It's a solution that will save users the aggravation of hours of relatively useless answers both here and on the phone with your support people.  It's an answer that will save you hours of having to give out the same wrong answers as you have been.

 

I posted the answer to threads that were no more than 90 days or so old and then decided to post a general answer so that it would be more easily available.

 

Instead of being accused of spamming, I had expected something more along the lines of "Wow, that's it!  Thanks!  We're going to make this a sticky so that people won't have to spend more than a few minutes trying to solve their problem and we won't have to be bothered with this one again."

 

You can choose to block this thread; you can choose to ban me from the forum.  But, in any event, rest assured that I will carry this issue onto Customer Service until it is resolved to my satisfaction, or at least until I have made things as uncomfortable for you as you have for me.

 

I, and the users of this forum, pay your salary, not vice-versa.

 


The "wow that's great, great answer" pat on the back that you crave isn't coming. Having to add any type of outside equipment isn't going to work. And the percentage of people with that problem is so low, nobody knows it's a problem. Cheers

Contributor

Re: Deleted Posts

It's not clear that the manufacturers can/will keep in sync with the very latest specs.  Getting either Comcast or the TV manufacturers to a) acknowledge the problem and b) fix the problem in a timely manner is a difficult, often fruitless task.  (Most of the Level-1 Comcast people have never even heard of HDCP!)

 

I'm not suggesting that everyone get one of these devices as a matter of course, but when the problem is chronic (e.g. my 2-year old Sony XBR850), then what should a user do?  Reboot the box every time they turn on the TV?

 

Contributor

Re: Deleted Posts

Dealing with Comcast/Sony is what doesn't work! The external box does indeed work as far as X1 in HD is concerned.  X1 in 4K/HDR is a non-issue because there isn't much!

 

My TV is a Sony XBR850 that Sony claims is HDCP 2.2 compatible.  The X1 box claims it won't support 4K and neither party is willing to do anything about it other than point fingers.

 

(Informally polling Comcast support people says that this is not a rare problem at all.)

Expert

Re: Deleted Posts


@RMCX wrote:

And, BTW, the wife gets even more upset when she has to do it multiple times a day!!!

 

My background:  50+ years in tech.  Software, hardware, etc.

 

This stuff is so complex and intertwined that when I die, my wife will not be able to watch television!!!


I certainly agree with this statement. My wife would rather play with her Kindle HD, than listen to how to use our Samsung UHD television. Thing may actually be worse. We needed to get regular land-line phones for our folks in their nineties since they forgot how to use even a portable phone. I see they "Unblocked" your post here.

 

As for Comcast; they are between a rock and a hard place. Their proprietary equipment is designed to protect them from being sued by keeping customers from copying programs produced. It's the main reason for most problems found on Comcast DRV's versus customer's expectations.

 

I have avoided the current problems by just using Comcast for linear cable on a Cisco HD cable-box. We have always had DSL for high-speed broadband and using IPV apps found on the tv. Everything has been working trouble-free for 4K/HDR viewing since early 2016. We just bide our time waiting for Comcast to get their act together for new technology.


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Re: Deleted Posts

Having reread this thread and others, I decided to delve a bit deeper into the issue and so I took a (very) brief look at the HDCP 2.2 spec.  A couple of things jumped out immediately.

 

Item 1:  The spec requires a response from the downstream device back to the upstream device within 20ms.  On the assumption that the TV wasn't doing this properly and that this was the main culprit here, I set up some experiments.

 

In particular I forced the X1 box into a "power off" state via the device options in the settings menu (since the touch button on unit's top didn't seem to do anything).  I would then turn on the TV manually with the Sony remote, see the blue screen, and then turn on the X1 box via the Comcast remote.  i.e. the TV was fully warmed up and ready to go when Comcast tried to signal it.

 

So far that's worked 100% of the time!

 

The next step was to figure out how the remotes were going to work so that the wife only has to press one power button on one remote.

 

The Comcast remote is more-or-less useless for this purpose as far as I can tell since it doesn't really power down the X1 box.  (It does power it up, though, if the box is really asleep.)  I don't even know in which order the Comcast remote powers the devices on.

 

We use an older Harmony 700 remote and I have now programmed the startup operation as: TV, 5 second delay, X1.  Again, that seems to be working 100%, although I won't be comfortable that this is the solution until we've gone through a week or so of usage.

 

Item 2:  There's an entire section in the spec devoted to 3rd party down-version converters!  These are legitimate, fully supported devices if you find yourself in the need for one.

Contributor

Re: Deleted Posts

I don't have to wait a week to find out if the Harmony will work here:  It won't!

 

There's evidently no way to power down the X1 box via any sort of remote.  And if that doesn't happen, the connection to the Sony becomes pretty random.

 

I'll continue to browse the spec, but at this point I think I'm left with only two possibilities:  deal with Comcast/Sony or use my (supported!) converter.  Hmmm...tough choice.

Expert

Re: Deleted Posts


@RMCX wrote:

I don't have to wait a week to find out if the Harmony will work here:  It won't!

 

There's evidently no way to power down the X1 box via any sort of remote.  And if that doesn't happen, the connection to the Sony becomes pretty random.

 

I'll continue to browse the spec, but at this point I think I'm left with only two possibilities:  deal with Comcast/Sony or use my (supported!) converter.  Hmmm...tough choice.


down convert devices just have firmward that is below 2.* level of HDCP so the 4k/UHD is not available. can you set the harmony to do a power save now using the menu? you'd have to assume the menu comes up in guide after 'xfinity' button is 'sent'. 



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Re: Deleted Posts

As far as I can tell, HDCP 1.4 does indeed support 4K, but there's some question as to the rate. The box that I'm using claims the following:

 

  • Play todays content on your legacy 4K display; Converts HDCP 2.2 to 1.4
  • Supports 4K@60Hz and Deep Color; Plug and play simplicity
  • Supports DTS-HD Master Audio™, Dolby TrueHD™, and LPCM audio formats; Small and portable

But, in the Comcast/Xfinity world, is this actually an issue?  There's essentially 0 4k content available at the present time.  And I don't have this problem with my Blu-Ray player or my Roku.

 

As to using Harmony to power down the X1 box, sure I could do that, BUT:  None of the Harmony devices can speak to the X1 box via RF, only IR.  Thus I would have to tell the wife to be sure to hold the remote steady for the 20-30 seconds that that sequence would take.  Not something I'm anxious to do!!

Contributor

Re: Deleted Posts

BTW, I haven't gone through the whole HDCP spec in detail, but my cursory reading says that it is only concerned with the validity of the connected machines.  It is not concerned with content.  HDCP is all about encryption, not what's being encrypted.  HDCP doesn't care what you're transmitting (e.g. 4k, 2k, HDR, etc), only that the machines have been qualified to do the transmission.

 

It's HDMI that assigns content limitation based pretty much on physical characteristics such as bandwidth, wires, pinouts, etc.

 

(Day-by-day, I read a little more of spec)

Expert

Re: Deleted Posts


@RMCX wrote:

BTW, I haven't gone through the whole HDCP spec in detail, but my cursory reading says that it is only concerned with the validity of the connected machines.  It is not concerned with content.  HDCP is all about encryption, not what's being encrypted.  HDCP doesn't care what you're transmitting (e.g. 4k, 2k, HDR, etc), only that the machines have been qualified to do the transmission.

 

It's HDMI that assigns content limitation based pretty much on physical characteristics such as bandwidth, wires, pinouts, etc.

 

(Day-by-day, I read a little more of spec)


4k (including UHD too) now requires 2.2 connection while lower HDCP security levels allow 1080p



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Re: Deleted Posts

Can you point me to a reference on that?  I'm interested to know more.  It's not in the HDCP spec as far as I can tell and I haven't found anything on the HDMI website that says that.  i.e. no technical reasons.

 

OTOH, I could understand that content creators might require cable companies to implement HDCP 2.2 before transmitting UHD movies.  And this brings us to another point:

 

Both HDMI and HDCP are licensed standards protected by law.  You cannot sell any device purporting to be compatible with either of these standards without having paid the requisite fees.

 

So, if the converter boxes sold by Amazon purport to be compatible, then there is probably a good chance that they're doing so legally.  Thus if the input side of the converter can legally identify itself as HDCP 2.2 compatible, then the output side of the X1 box shouldn't care.  All of the legal conditions between those two boxes have been met.

 

Then, if the output side of the converter box can legally identify itself as HDCP 1.4 compatible, then the input side of the TV shouldn't care either.  Again, all of the legal conditions between those two components will have been met.

 

In fact, it seems to me that the only limiting factor in this chain is the capability of the TV itself.  If it's an HDCP 1.4 device that can handle 4k/60p, then that's all that should matter.  What we pay for the converter box has bought us the requisite licenses to legitmately show at that resolution.  The only thing the converter is doing (as per the HDCP spec) is shaking hands legally, not downgrading any content signals.

 

Again, can you please send the specific references that you are using here.

 

 

Contributor

Re: Deleted Posts

BTW, my Roku 4 feeds 4k/60p to my Sony XBR through the converter box just fine.

Expert

Re: Deleted Posts


@RMCX wrote:

Can you point me to a reference on that?  I'm interested to know more.  It's not in the HDCP spec as far as I can tell and I haven't found anything on the HDMI website that says that.  i.e. no technical reasons.

 

OTOH, I could understand that content creators might require cable companies to implement HDCP 2.2 before transmitting UHD movies.  And this brings us to another point:

 

Both HDMI and HDCP are licensed standards protected by law.  You cannot sell any device purporting to be compatible with either of these standards without having paid the requisite fees.

 

So, if the converter boxes sold by Amazon purport to be compatible, then there is probably a good chance that they're doing so legally.  Thus if the input side of the converter can legally identify itself as HDCP 2.2 compatible, then the output side of the X1 box shouldn't care.  All of the legal conditions between those two boxes have been met.

 

Then, if the output side of the converter box can legally identify itself as HDCP 1.4 compatible, then the input side of the TV shouldn't care either.  Again, all of the legal conditions between those two components will have been met.

 

In fact, it seems to me that the only limiting factor in this chain is the capability of the TV itself.  If it's an HDCP 1.4 device that can handle 4k/60p, then that's all that should matter.  What we pay for the converter box has bought us the requisite licenses to legitmately show at that resolution.  The only thing the converter is doing (as per the HDCP spec) is shaking hands legally, not downgrading any content signals.

 

Again, can you please send the specific references that you are using here. 


tech talk: the sender source of the stream (example Netflix) and the 'sink' (TV) will 'do' the handshake to determine if the path is fully compliant to HDCP 2.2. if any device is in the path (like the converter) the HDCP will be limited to the lowest device in the connection (in this case HDCP 1.4). Each HDCP enabled device has a unique ID that is verified by the HDCP handshake to still be valid (f found to be revoked or invalid the stream will shut down completely).  

 

google HDCP source sink will probably produce some applicable articles.



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Expert

Re: Deleted Posts


@RMCX wrote:

BTW, my Roku 4 feeds 4k/60p to my Sony XBR through the converter box just fine.


https://www.xfinity.com/support/articles/netflix-4k-on-x1

 

does netflix show uhd 4k options while connected through the X1 set top box and the 'converter'?



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Re: Deleted Posts

The answer to the Netflix question is "Yes, but!"  This is interesting.

 

I do see the 4K options in Comcast's Netflix app but the shows will only display at 1080p through the box or not through the box!!!  I have a Sony XBR850 that's 4K with a reputed HDCP 2.2 but a direct connection to the Comcast box will only show me 1080p.  What do you make of that?  That's something I'd like to track on.

 

Ditto for the 'native' Comcast 4K shows.  It says my TV isn't compatible.

 

As to the Comcast note about 4K support, as per my previous post, remember that the converter is a legal/legitimate 2.2 downstream device.  The Comcast box shouldn't care after that.  It should deliver 4K as per the spec.  (The Roku sees the converter as 2.2 and does indeed deliver 4K to the TV).

 

We only have the one 4K device in the house, so I can't go much further in my testing.

 

Want to experiment?  Order one of the devices from Amazon (~$40) and give it a try on your end and see what you can find out.  (You can always return it.)  You could get some first-hand expertise here.

Expert

Re: Deleted Posts


@RMCX wrote:

The answer to the Netflix question is "Yes, but!"  This is interesting.

 

I do see the 4K options in Comcast's Netflix app but the shows will only display at 1080p through the box or not through the box!!!  I have a Sony XBR850 that's 4K with a reputed HDCP 2.2 but a direct connection to the Comcast box will only show me 1080p.  What do you make of that?  That's something I'd like to track on.

 

Ditto for the 'native' Comcast 4K shows.  It says my TV isn't compatible.

 

As to the Comcast note about 4K support, as per my previous post, remember that the converter is a legal/legitimate 2.2 downstream device.  The Comcast box shouldn't care after that.  It should deliver 4K as per the spec.  (The Roku sees the converter as 2.2 and does indeed deliver 4K to the TV).

 

We only have the one 4K device in the house, so I can't go much further in my testing.

 

Want to experiment?  Order one of the devices from Amazon (~$40) and give it a try on your end and see what you can find out.  (You can always return it.)  You could get some first-hand expertise here.


the 'sink' (final device) determines if the stream from source (netflix) to it (the TV) is protected for HDCP 2.2. anything in between (like an AVR or your 'device') that is not 2.2 ends the prospect of a 2.2 secure path.



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