OpenConnect is closer to being a demand driven cache, rather than a prepopluated library of Netflix titles. The hardware can determine commonly requested titles and formats over the long term and cache those titles to reduce the amount of traffic required to retrieve Netflix content. It's the equivalent of Comcast doing caching, except Netflix is providing the caching hardware. This is the cheaper solution vs upgrading connections to handle increased prime time traffic.
Net neutrality is a different issue altogether, and a complex one at that. If you don't upgrade your peering connections to meet increased traffic, is that considered a violation by "favoring" other content providers? On the flip side, if you do upgrade, is that also considered "favoring"? It depends on how you define "neutral." Regardless of what side you stand on, it is hard to argue against the fact that Comcast hasn't upgraded their connections to support increased traffic.
I fail to see what you are arguing at. If Comcast chooses to cache content from content providers locally, then they are already violating net neutrality. Case in point, Streampix.
This thread is about Comcast's inability to provide a smooth Netflix experience. They have two options:
1) Open Connect
2) Increase connection capacity
If they choose not to participate in Open Connect because of net neutrality (that's a laugh) or otherwise, that is their prerogative. So when the experience turns out to be subpar, and Comcast refuses to take action on #2, it doesn't leave a whole lot of options on the table.
I have numbers and hard evidence. Netflix knows it, Comcast knows it too. Anyone who has worked in OPS or otherwise can easily get these numbers. Transport ISPs across the entire area, including the big ones like L3 and Limelight, are heavily affected. Like the Time Warner graph shown on the Netflix blog I linked a few posts ago, rates are normal rates during daytime, and dipping down to 50% or less during prime time. Any company worth it's salt would notice even 10-15% deltas in rates - to suggest Comcast doesn't know what's going on is a bit ludicrous.
This is not a witch hunt. On the contrary, there is plenty of evidence that the poor experience is due to limited connectivity on the Comcast side. If they are not directly throttling traffic, then they are choosing not to fix a subpar experience that they are aware of. Again, that is their prerogative, but customers should be made aware that this is a choice made by their ISP. Comcast is doing everyone a disservice by trying to assign blame on Netflix.
FWIW, there's a precedence for this kind of thing. We are where we are today because Comcast made the first move years ago by discriminating against L3 traffic. For those who don't quite remember, here's a refresher:
Generally the performance is directly dictated by how the content is sent to ISPs and Netflix makes this decision. The simple test is compare against Amazon, Hulu and many other sources of content. Then compare it with all the Ookla and FCC rankings on ISPs.
You will see the common denomenator of these issues across many ISPs is Netflix
FWIW, there's a precedence for this kind of thing. We are where we are today because Comcast made the first move years ago by discriminating against L3 traffic. For those who don't quite remember, here's a refresher:
Wasn't Netflix behind that one too? Didn't that impact more than just Comcast and multiple ISPs had issues?
Netflix thought they could shift 1/3 of the Internet overnight and expect every ISP to jump with massive capacity upgrades to the new path. With all this shifting massive traffic around to get the cheapest CDN or transit on a regular basis, don't they bear much of the responsibility around "what is actually changing?" and "who is actually making the changes?"
Perhaps Netflix should take a lesson from Akamai, Google, Amazon, Hulu, Limelight, Yahoo, etc around how to be a good net citizen before they break something really big.
Well, guys, I don't know if Comcast did something, or Netflix did something, or the stars and the moon have aligned, but for the past three days I have been getting great Netflix video quality. Right now I'm getting 5800kbps (1080p) on Example Short 23.976. On a Friday night. On my Apple TV, which just a few days ago rarely got above 235kbps.
I'll probably never know what changed. I made no changes on my end since trying different DNS servers last week (which had no effect), so I can't even speculate why it's working now.
Could be a temporary issue for you or there was a change by Netflix. Generally content owners can make decisions like what bit rate to send you, what ISP to use (congested or not), what CDN to use, etc, etc and each decision can be made on a min by min basis which can improve your experience or make it worse to test the impact of alternative delivery mechanisms
ISPs only maintain your broadband and, as I said before, if your broadband is good, but a specific service is a problem, odds are the service provider is the one that has changed something (and can fix it as well.)
Netflix merely switched to using L3 as their major transport - the dispute was about the peering, and that was between L3 and Comcast. Netflix pays L3, L3 figures out the rest.
The smart folks at Netflix are well aware that their traffic levels are large enough where moving terabits/sec around has serious downstream impact across the entire Internet ecosystem. It would be irresponsible of any major Internet player to send traffic through a new path that they know is not capable of handling it and it could be considered negligent to continue to do so after you know it wont work. They can't pass this issue on to Level 3 that year, Cogent this year, etc.
Again this is larger than just Comcast (do a few google searches) and why I say Netflx should start taking responsibility and behave more like Amazon, Akamai, Google, Hulu, Limelight, etc, etc vs purposly causing, or being apathetic to problems (where they are the source of the changes) and implying the blame should go to others.
So, why does Netflix work during the day and not at night when Comcast is busy? I contacted Netflix and they were sure the problem is with Comcast not supplying an adequate infrastructure to handle peak periods in my area!!!!!! But wait the Comcast movies work at the peak periods so something must be up with Comcast. I am thinking of canceling Comcast
Your router & your modem. Netflix works during the day but not during Prime time . Other options on the Smart Tv will work Therefore it is your problem! I am thinking of discontinuing Comcast and notifying FCC . I hardly use any bandwidth and none other than the Smart TV at night so you need to fix it so Netflix is not blocked
I have some interesting data that doesn't quite make sense unless the throttling is actually DIRECTED at Netflix or Level3 is doing the throttling. Warning, this is a bit convoluted so read carefully. By throttling, I mean the total traffic bandwidth is limited.
Speakeasy speed test and Netflix Streaming both go through the same Level3 IP. I get >50Mb to speakeasy and at the same time ~1Mb to Netflix (during prime time). During off hours of course, Netflix is fine.
I can stream from the same Netflix Server farm and get full bandwith if I VPN through another ISP. (but it goes through xo.net, not level3).
What doesn't quite make sense is that the connection from the Level3 router to the Comcast ibone allows 50Mb Speakeasy, but only 1Mb Netflix. So either the traffic is throttled by source, or Level3 is not providing it.
NetflixSeattle -> Level3ip -> Me = 1Mb
Speakeasy -> SameLevel3ip -> Me = 50Mb
NetflixSeattle -> xo.net ->OtherISP -> VPN -> Me = 6Mb (limited by VPN server)
I am experiencing exactly the same problems. I can stream Hulu, YouTube, Vudu, on Comcast with full HD. Netflix will switch to HD less than 10% of the time. It is not my equipment. Using the very same computers, I can stream in FULL HD on my Verizon WiFi Hotspot, with no trouble at all. Somehow Comcast is not allowing the NetFLix to detect the quality of stream (QOS), and is therefore not allowing NetFlix to stream at the higher speed.
Also when I run the speedtest at www.speedtest.net, and Xfinity speeed test, the speeds are all over the place, and not at all consistent, ranging from .33mbps (Yes, that is point-33 mbps) up to 57mbps.
Comcast has been to my location twice now, and replaced the drop lines, and my modem, but there has been no improvement. Even though I can show right in from of the technician that I can stream NetFlix with full HD on Verizon, with the same equipment, but not with Comcast, they are still trying to blame it all on NetFlix. I've been on the phone with NetFlix as well, and they are blaming Comcast. Based on my four hour analysis with various service providers yesterday, I am 100% convinced that the problem lies with Comcast, and the the QOS service on their servers is throttling the QOS service for NetFlix. I can duplicate the issue everytime when I use Verizon, I can connect 100% of the time with full HD, but less than 10% of the time can I connect with full HD on Comcast.
I've also noticed that the HD I get with Hulu, or YouTube, or Vudu, are not as clear and crisp with Comcast and I can get with Verizon. Unfortunately using my hotspot, 10gb of data is used up with a mere two HD videos from NetFlix.
Comcast is coming out again tomorrow, and I am not going to stop making them come out and crediting me for not providing the full services If they are not able to resolve this, after three visits to my location, I will likely switch over to AT&T U-Verse
Has anyone else tried to stream Netflix on other services such as U-Verse
Based on my research one of two things is happening:
1. Comcast is throttling traffic from Netflix by source. I doubt they are throttling by source since there have been so many FCC lawsuits and they would be fined by the FCC. But they may be.
2. Level3 has contracted for a certain amount of video bandwith into Comcast's routers. They have to limit their bandwidth to the contracted amount or pay penalties. During peak hours, that contracted bandwidth is inadequate. So Level3 is actually throttling video from Netflix to stay under their limit. I have no idea whether this is the nature of the Level3/Comcast agreement.
In order to prove Scenario 2 I need to find another video streaming site that runs through the same Level3 gateway and see if it is also bandwidth limited. All I know now is that the Speakeasy speed test is not limited at the same time that video streaming is limited. Whether that is due to different packet characteristics or Scenario 1 is impossible to tell.
Scenario 2 is the "comcast fanboy" line, but makes a certain amout of sense.
3. netflix's cdn possibly unable to handle peak period demand, or that netflix is paying for a limited amount of cdn bandwidth, but more likely some of the peering routes from thier cdn that They contract for become congested,
Read back in the thread also as other possibilities have been described, and that it's not just comcast customers experiencing this, but customers from most all ISP's
I'm saying the same thing. Your 3 is my 2. Level3 is the name of their CDN. Well, one of their CDN's.
I decided that accessing other streaming video providers though the Level3 Gateway would prove nothing since Level3 will have their own QOS Prioritization for their customers. They can limit Netflix aggregate bandwith while allow TED videos at full bandwidth during peak Netflix hours.
Cocast just came to my site. They ran a signal diagsostic and found random signal drops of 6-7 DBs that lasts about 20ms. Tracking the dropped packets from my modem to the pose, they found that this issue was also fournd directly at the pole on the fiber-optic. Just a few moments ago they replaced a line-block amplifier.
After my internet returned I tested being able to get HD from NetFlix. On the first try, loading an HD video went VERY fast, and went into HD mode in less than than 30 seconds. The second and third video took about 10 minutes before the signal was good enough to switch to HD.
Comparing this to Verizon, there is still no comperison. Verizon consistently switches to HD in less than 30 seconds, not matter how may videos I try this with.
I will be contacting Comcast for follow-up with this. The QOS is still too sporadic.
Additional Information: As I was watching one of my favorite TV shows, the stream had switch over to HD, after about 10 munnites, but then 6 minutes after the stream has switched to HD, the strem stepped back down to SD.
Clearly switching out the line-block amp has not fixed the issue. I will be contacting Comcast with an update about this. The line-tech specialist was supposed to come by my house after the swaping out of the line aamplifier, but he never did show up.
Now an hour later, I STILL am not able to switch over to HD from netflix. Restarting all devices has made no difference. I am going to call back the techincian.
You will get good or poor performance depending on the time of day. In the morning or early afternoon it can be good. Weekdays 7-10pm will always be bad. I've gotten fast HD at 4AM (buffered at 20Mb/s) and pretty quick HD at 1PM (buffered at ~6-10 Mb/s).
In my case I can get poor Netflix (~1Mb/s) at the same time I get good speedtest performance (80Mb/s due to Comcast "boost", measured by speakeasy, windows resource monitor, and my ddwrt router) and both of these go through the same Level3 Gateway. I can also download at a continuous almost constant 50Mb/s while getting ~1Mb/s through Netflix (multiple 8Mb/s downloads).
Not all situations are the same though. For example, you may be in a neighborhood with limited total bandwidth and you get throttled locally when that occurs. That might explain the speedtest numbers.
What I find most frustrating about this is that I don't have this problem with any other ISP, or with any other streaming vedo service. ONLY with Comcast do I have any issue getting HD streaming video. Cleary Comcast is somehow not doing what the other ISPs are doing.
I am so frustrated at this time, that I am likely to file a complaint with my state attorney general, the FTC, and the FCC. I have even drafted letters already about this.
If Comcast does not improve this, they may be setting theirselves up for a class action lawsuite.
Yes, I seem angry, and I am. Two mothsn I've been battling this, and making no improvments. In fact, it is getting worse, rather than better.
Everyone: Are any of you seeing this issue with other ISPs? So far, I have not.
I'm having problems streaming Netflix, too. Panasonic Blu Ray player DMP-BDT220 (hard-wired ethernet connection), Comcast high speed internet. Netflix always used to work fine. But, seemed to get slower and slower over the past year (app startup and navigation, loading times, etc), but not too bad. Then, this past week, agonizingly long load times, and no HD at all, very poor (below SD) picture quality. And, if I can get movies to load, movies would stop, reload, and freeze during reloading process. All my other streaming apps work fine (Vudu, Amazon, etc.. flawless HD using same device and connection). Just got off Live Chat with Netflix. They are convinced the problem lies with Comcast, and how their service is communicating with certain devices and the Netflix app. I tested it through my LG tv instead of my blu ray player. Same problem, so it's not my equipment or internet connection. It is with the Netflix app ONLY that I'm having issues. Netflix customer service monitored my connection during the live chat and troubleshooting, and said that I was dropping to 1-1.5 Mbps while trying to stream their content. On the other hand, Vudu and Amazon are streaming flawless HD quality for me, with no hiccups whatsoever. Comcast and Netflix are having "communication issues" in their relationship, and I, and many others, are suffering.
I'm going to sound like a comcast fanboy (which I am certainly not) but the problem is with Netflix and its arrangement with Level3 (their CDN) and Level3's arrangement with Comcast.
You can kind of blame Comcast because they want Level3 to pay for more bandwidth. Level3 lowballed their bid to Netflix to source their data and represented that they had better access than they really did. Now Netflix is paying the price (actually, you are paying the price) for getting duped by Level3.
Comcast is playing hardball by demanding more money from Level3 for bandwidth .
Of course Netflix is going to blame Comcast, but it is Netflix that got duped by Level3.
I can receive very high speed data from the same Level3 gateway that provides Netflix to Comcast. If Comcast were throttling Netflix by source, then Level3 and the FCC would be all over them. As I said previously, the more likely scenario is that Level3 is throttling Netflix during peak usage hours to avoid aggregate video bandwidth penalties.
The Comcast routers have plenty of bandwidth (at least in Seattle they do). I can download >50Mb/s (continuously) through them while only getting 1.4Mb/s of Netflix streaming. And a lot of that 50Mb/s comes from other Level3 servers. So, only Level3 can be choking the Netflix data at that point. Otherwise Level3 would have an open and shut FCC complaint.
Comcast will lose customers, Netflix will lose customers, and everyone loses. Both are to blame, but Netflix is the more dishonest by not admitting their CDN is throttling the bandwidth.
I have had no issues with netflix or any other streaming item on our xbox but just got a new bluray player and haven't had a chance to try Netflix but can tell you that with hulu the video is constantly buffering. Also checked my speed and although I am paying for Blast I don't seem to be getting the speed I should be getting. I think blast is supposed to be 50 and I am seeing 29-34 consistently. I have tried power cycling everything and nothing seems to help. Really frustrating to be paying the cost of blast and subscriptions to all of these streaming sites and not get what I pay for. I would expect that with blast I should have no buffering issues at all.
I'm having the same problem with my slingbox stream. It works great during the day and it becomes extremly slow during peek hours. At the same time it works perfec at work, where it's a different isp. How can i verify scenario 2?
I have been getting absolutley terrible Netflix performance for the last couple of months. I very rarely get an HD stream and often it is below SD quality. I only have slightly better luck during the day, but not much. I get the same reuslt on all of my devices: Hardwired windows 8 desktop, Hardwired PS3, Ipad, Android.
Amazon streams HD with no problem.
My speedtests and download tests work as expected (Performance Tier) as well.
Same problem for me since I added VOICE on Dec 13, 2013 to the cable/internet package (began Nov 2011). After at least 10 cust. service calls and online chat, I was told to bring in and exchange my modem. The new one is model ARIS TC862. I have hardwired MAC desktop and cable box, wireless iPad and Sony Blu-Ray DVD player. iPhones are able to get Netflix. I just finished activating the new modem and reactivating everything else. I ran a speed check (from comcast website) and download is about 57, upload 11.5, and PING 11 to 32. I am not tech savvy enough to know if these speeds are good or not. I thought the numbers would be higher with Blast! internet! I just tried Netflix again on cable TV, and it keeps stopping and starting. We are getting 1-2 bars out of 4.
I have no idea why this is happening, and can't seem to get any answers!. Before adding the landline on Dec. 13, everything worked fine!
I am so glad to have found this discussion only to confirm that I'm not crazy. I don't know who is at fault--Netflix or Comcast but I'm heading down to an actual comcast office tomorrow and if they don't have a solution I'm finding a new service provider. I've been annoyed at the constant increases in prices anyway.
Here is my situation. I've been streaming video from a sony blu ray player for over a year with no trouble. I primarily use Amazon and Netflix. Around Thanksgiving I started having trouble between 6pm and 2am. Constant rebuffering.
I've called Comcast three times and finally insisted on a service call. They say nothing is wrong from their end. I've followed all the troubleshooting recommended by Netflix and Comcast. Both were saying it's because I needed a new router. Bought a very expensive new router. No problems with any other services except Netflix and only between 6pm and 2am. Changed my blue ray player to a roku. Still the same problems, only with Netflix between 6pm and 2am.
Bottom line is that something hinky is going on and after a conversation with a Netflix representative he told me he is getting 20 calls a night from Comcast users to every one he gets from all other service providers combined. He said all the reps are reporting this to the Neflix admin but they haven't received any "official" word on what they should say.
I also have an online business and changing services from Comcast is going to be time consuming but I'm so tired of their poor customer service that if they can't fix this problem for me I'm leaving. I would like to for once get a customer service person who speaks English well, doesn't sound either bored or indifferent, and who actually fixes the problem. I'd like to have a bill that I can predict will stay somewhat the same and not have an increase ever 6 months. I'd like to not have to buy new equipment or take trips to the Comcast office for a new modem every 6 months. My opinion is that Comcast has oversold my neighborhood and refuses to fix the problem. I'm not a technician or computer/internet savy so I can't do all the different tests you all have done. If someone has filed with the FCC, please let me know cause I'd like to add my voice to the complaint.
Mine has been throttled for the past several weeks. Starts at 6pm eastern and stops at 2am eastern on the dot. 288 during those exact hours. 1080p super hd immediately after. If its not fixed in a few days I am dropping comcast AND netflix. Filing a complaint with the FCC tomorrow and visiting my local town council about Comcasts monopoly. I suggest youall take a few minutes to file a complaint with the FCC as neither company is going to raise a finger to make things right.
Here's my latest interactions regarding this problem.
Called Comcast again and was told a "senior technician" would call me between 8am and 12pm the next day. Never received a phone call!
Called Netlix again and this time got a representative that couldn't care less to help me. Was told it wasn't their problem but Comcast's. I was so irritated by the person's attitude that I canceled Netflix and won't be receiving service after January 27th.
Unfortunately I was hoping to get this all working because I'm having knee replacement surgery on the 20th and was hoping to watch lots of old movies during recuperation. Are there any other services like Netflix that offer free streaming? I have Amazon Prime but have gone through most of their movies.
This is all so frustrating. I'm going to try to make a trip to a Comcast office to see if anyone can help because trying to get help via the phone is impossible.
Could those of you who have filed a FCC complaint please provide a link so I can do also?
This is happening all over the country for the past month. Several us have tried various things to improve and nothing helps. Seems to be a problem between management of Netflix and Comcast and unfortunately they are allowing thousands of people to scramble around buying new equipment, making numerous calls to both companies, etc rather than address the problem and tell their customers what is going on!
In addition there are various threads that aren't being joined so people can't even see that it's not an individual problem but nation wide.
I am trying to find out a way we can all organize to petition Comcast and Netflix to start playing nicely with each other and/or to start sending complaints to the FCC.
I'm real irritated at paying for service that I'm not receiving. Most shows start out HD but within minutes start buffering and by the second buffer the quality has dropped to less than half on Netflix's "scale" and the picture is so pixelated you can hardly see faces most of the time. Of course Netflix and Comcast blame the problem on each other. The only other provider in our area is AT&T so I've been looking at their forums to see what kind of problems they do/do not have. It looks to me they are having the same problems with Netflix. So what IS the problem and WHO is to blame?
I used the Comcast CEO email and corporate customer service email as the contact. Let's see if we can get any resolution here or at least an adequate explanation as to what is going on.
Please send to your contacts and also check other postings on this forum. There are lots of various threads about the problem that are (for some strange reason?) not being merged.
Also I wanted to add Reed Hastings, the CEO for Netflix as another person to send the petition to but can't find his email address anywhere. If you are more savy at searching and locate that address, please reply and I will attach to the petition.
Not me. My problems has now been going on for over two months. I've had technicians out four times, and instead of my seeds improving, they are getting detailed slower and slower. Anytime a technician comes out, they keep telling me that they will escalate this up to the next higher level and that there will be a supervisor reaching me. It has yet to happen.
Service and customer satisfaction from my perspective is getting worse and worse. The service department is showing me a poor record of consistently and follow through. I will not give up even it it means I have to move up to the operate level and get my state attorney general involved.
This lack of consistency and follow through is not what I am paying for. I've been patient for several moths, and and getting poorer and poorer service.
Then to add to this, every time I call 800-comcast, when they identify my account, and "switch" me to a customer support representative, I am hung up on, 100% of the time, for the lat 10 days. It is like they are deliberately cutting me off to avoid the issues, and if this keeps happening, I will get my state attorney general involved.
I am heving problesm even with NO router, connecting via ethernet, directly to my modem, which was replace a motn ago, with no iprovement. I also have the same problem with ALL of my devices inside the house, even when I connect them direcly to my moden.
I don't have this problem using Verizon Wireless, 100% of the time, regardless of the time of day wor week, I can connect with full HD to Netflix, via my WiFi portal, with all devices. I have this problem ONLY with Comcast.
I have encountered so many Comcast techincians who do not know anything about this. It is rediculous. I even went to a DNS server enginer, at my instisnte froma superviceler level two technicians. The engeer thanks me for educating him about this, promised he would follow up on this, and get back to me. IT has been three weeks and no follow up. Just like the last four service calls I've had, with promises to follow up and call back, NONE, of the promises and commettments have been kept.
I'm so discouraged that I begun to look for other SIPs in may area. I've been a Comcast customer for over 15 years, but I've never been to disppoints, and so overlooked before. Their srvices are costing me mor and more, yet I am getting porrer and poorer services as time goes, on, and even after four service calls in two months, my services levels have declines rather than improved, and no one seems to care or take any rsponsiblity to make thigs right.
I am now actively looking for other service providers.
This is exactly the same schenario that I can reporduce 100% of the time, when I swithc to Verizon Wireless 4g hotspot. I wish I could have unllimited data with them, or at least the 300GB limited I get with Comcast.
Why is Version 4G so consistently perfct, when Comcast is sporadict at best?
Believe me, I know it's frustrating. I usually get good results from where I live but I occasionally run into poor Netflix performance, as well. It just seems to depend on which path the traffic is taking to get to Comcast. Even though they'll likely blame Comcast, I would recommend continuing to complain to Netflix.
Senior Network Engineer, Comcast
If my results were occasional, I could live with that, but instead my Comcast streaming veido speeds are declineing, and even after two months and fourr service calles, my service is getting worse rhat than better.
I am extremly disappointed. It seems that no one has a solution or even willing to go up to the next levels to solve the promblems. I never even recived the promised call backs and follwo-ups from the line engineers, who morised me each time to call back. From my persoective, it seems that Comcast is simply evading and avoiding.
At least is someone kept thier proise to follow up and update me with what is bing done, I might be more satified, but to be avoided and ignored, is not help me to remain a happy and sastified customer.