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Xi6 release date and more 4K content?

Contributor

Xi6 release date and more 4K content?

I see a lot of Xfinity adds about 4K content on Samsung and LG TV's 4K TV's (I have a samsung) and was wondering what that was about. I know the Rio olympics were broadcast in 4K but aside from that is there more 4K broadcasting? Will my TV just automatically display 4K signals when it's available?

 

On that topic when is the Xi6 cable box coming out? I know that is supposed to handle 4K signals and it has been in production for a while and is supposed to be released anytime now. 

Gold Problem Solver

Re: Xi6 release date and more 4K content?

Not another 4K thread.......

What "ads" are you talking about?

Comcast has an app called 4K UHD Sampler App that offers just four or five programs and is only available to owners of select Samsung and LG TV sets. I have access to the app and generally the app doesn't work properly. Personally I think it is comical.

Comcast is dreadfully behind with 4K.

FYI #1 Comcast employees participating in this forum will not comment until an official public announcement has been made.

FYI #2 Nothing believable or reliable has been said by Comcast in regards to 4K.

FYI #3 It appears that Comcast is more concerned about 1gb Internet than 4k content. They are currently in the process of "downgrading" cable TV service to 720p.

FYI #4 A little birdie on a tree told me that Xi6 may launch this year but last time I checked it is now December...

PLEASE do some reading in this forum. Plenty of up to date information exists.

Contributor

Re: Xi6 release date and more 4K content?

Sorry. I'm new and still haven't found a place to find reliable up to date information with regards to what Comcast is doing. If you have a link to that up to date information, I'd love to look at it. I am familiar with the UHD sampler app but it's pitiful and doesn't even really work like you said. Part of my motive to make "yet another 4K thread" is to push Comcast and keep bugging them about it. The services they provide have improved DRAMATICALLY in the last few years, especially with customer service, because people complained enough, gave bad reviews, etc. Comcast listened and made big changes. So I hope they will continue down that road and want to do my part to get them there. 

 

If comcast does in fact downgrade their cable service to 720p (which I don't see any evidence of no matter where I look) they'll be reducing my monthly bill. I would switch to direcTV but having the equivalent services I have now between the two would be very costly. Boy I hate monopolies lol. 

 

Comcast definitely is more concerned with gigabit internet and that's all well all and good (their internet service has been perfect for me in the 3 months I've been with them) but they definitely need to not neglect TV. 

 

So thanks for the response. Please link me to your source for all of this info on what they are doing. 

Problem Solver

Re: Xi6 release date and more 4K content?

There is no reliable information about 4 K from Comcast, and they have been promising it for over 3 years. Also; anything they have posted is here somewhere on the forum. Search 4K, UHD, HDR. You will need to scan through all the pages of the posts to see their comments.

 

They control the forum and don't make life easy finding information. The search only goes through "Subject" headings. I don't think it searches through each message.

 

As far as the ads are concerned I have seen them every day for the last few weeks. They claim they have 4K by saying: "Ask about our Ultra HD Sampler app. " That is all they have period!

 

 

Regular Contributor

Re: Xi6 release date and more 4K content?

Comcast seems to have very little interest in providing what customers want. I left them several years ago because their HD offerings weren't even close to what I could get elsewhere. I came back about 3 years ago because of an X1 double play promotion, and have been here ever since. Frankly, I haven't seen all these dramatic improvements in service over the past 3 years. Periodic increases in internet speeds over the past several years, yes.

 

As Rick said, they are in the process of downgrading their video to 720p to make room for their internet. By definition, 720p is still high definition, so your bill will not be going down.

 

I think everyone agrees that the UHD Sampler App is a royal pain in the backside, but that's probably the best they're going to do. Supposedly, the new Xfinity TV app for Roku will do 4k, but who knows. Like their Xi5 and Xi6 boxes, it didn't come out as we were told (beta was supposed to begin on 11/30). We'll just have to wait and see.

 

Your best bets for 4K are (probably always) going to be Netflix and Amazon.


CIAO!

Ed N.
Problem Solver

Re: Xi6 release date and more 4K content?

Ed:

 

You forgot You Tube which is basicly free.  

 

Mark

Contributor

Re: Xi6 release date and more 4K content?

I'm not particularly concerned with 4K content. My tv does an incredible job of upscaling 1080p anyway. I'm only asking because I'm curious as to comcast's 4K plans and would like to push them along the path to 4K streaming (it's not just comcast. it's a lot of lazy companies that aren't pushing 4K enough). 

 

With regards to their improvement in service, I am new to comcast (had service with them for about 2 years) I have known plenty of people who had comcast over the years and I remember ALL the horror storries about Comcast. I also remember it being super unstable internet that was always having issues and outages. Last year, I remember there being a few outages and network issues here in the twin cities. So far this year, I haven't experienced a single issue. That's a direct improvement over the course of the year and I know their customer service is way better than it was. Am I saying Comcast is perfect? Absolutely not. Back home, my parents have direcTV and verizon fios internet. Both services are WAY better. But I'm stuck with comcast out here more or less and they really are pretty good. 

 

I still haven't found anything to corroborate this "reduction to 720p" claim nor do I understand why they would do that. It's not necessary, it's counterintuitive (why go backwards?) and it will tick a LOT of people off, including me. It may still be high def technically but what I was saying is that if they do that, I will be demanding a reduced bill or I will more than likely drop them. Any comcast employee want to confirm or deny this move?

Regular Contributor

Re: Xi6 release date and more 4K content?


jarlmaster47 wrote:

 

 

I still haven't found anything to corroborate this "reduction to 720p" claim nor do I understand why they would do that. It's not necessary, it's counterintuitive (why go backwards?) and it will tick a LOT of people off, including me. It may still be high def technically but what I was saying is that if they do that, I will be demanding a reduced bill or I will more than likely drop them. Any comcast employee want to confirm or deny this move?


http://forums.xfinity.com/t5/Non-X1-Service/Comcast-downgrading-all-1080i-HD-channels-to-720p/m-p/28...

 

In the 3rd post, there is a link to another thread. Post #13 in that thread comes from a Comcast representative.


CIAO!

Ed N.
Gold Problem Solver

Re: Xi6 release date and more 4K content?

If there is a constant to the X1 forum, it is how few people truly read in this forum before they post something that has been repeated over and over and over... and over...


egnlsn wrote:

jarlmaster47 wrote:

 

 

I still haven't found anything to corroborate this "reduction to 720p" claim nor do I understand why they would do that. It's not necessary, it's counterintuitive (why go backwards?) and it will tick a LOT of people off, including me. It may still be high def technically but what I was saying is that if they do that, I will be demanding a reduced bill or I will more than likely drop them. Any comcast employee want to confirm or deny this move?


http://forums.xfinity.com/t5/Non-X1-Service/Comcast-downgrading-all-1080i-HD-channels-to-720p/m-p/28...

 

In the 3rd post, there is a link to another thread. Post #13 in that thread comes from a Comcast representative.


 

Contributor

Re: Xi6 release date and more 4K content?

Weird. I have my box set to 1080p and as far as I know, everything I watch is being broadcast in 1080p not 1080i or 720p. Some channels look better than others and there seems to be some variation in signal quality (DirecTV provides a cleaner, nicer image relative to Comcast from what I can tell) but I don't know. I guess I'll have to check what my TV is outputting on every channel to confirm. 

Gold Problem Solver

Re: Xi6 release date and more 4K content?

I am getting tired of providing "links" to forum newbies. My time is just as valuable as yours.


This forum has a very effective "search box". Please use it.



jarlmaster47 wrote:

Sorry. I'm new and still haven't found a place to find reliable up to date information with regards to what Comcast is doing. If you have a link to that up to date information, I'd love to look at it. I am familiar with the UHD sampler app but it's pitiful and doesn't even really work like you said. Part of my motive to make "yet another 4K thread" is to push Comcast and keep bugging them about it. The services they provide have improved DRAMATICALLY in the last few years, especially with customer service, because people complained enough, gave bad reviews, etc. Comcast listened and made big changes. So I hope they will continue down that road and want to do my part to get them there. 

 

If comcast does in fact downgrade their cable service to 720p (which I don't see any evidence of no matter where I look) they'll be reducing my monthly bill. I would switch to direcTV but having the equivalent services I have now between the two would be very costly. Boy I hate monopolies lol. 

 

Comcast definitely is more concerned with gigabit internet and that's all well all and good (their internet service has been perfect for me in the 3 months I've been with them) but they definitely need to not neglect TV. 

 

So thanks for the response. Please link me to your source for all of this info on what they are doing. 





Contributor

Re: Xi6 release date and more 4K content?

Well it's not exactly easy to find answers on here and it's quite a bit easier for a guy who just signed up TODAY to ask for information and have someone link them to it. It's way easier than searching through the 1.7 million discussions on this forum or using the search function, which just brings up a ton of topics that are all fairly similar. That's generally the point and benefit of a forum. Comcast could delete repeat questions, delete posts that are more than a few months old (I've gotten posts from 2-3 years back) or link every such repeat to a post that has answered said question. It only half does that. That's lazy coding. 

Contributor

Re: Xi6 release date and more 4K content?


RickGr4 wrote:

I am getting tired of providing "links" to forum newbies. My time is just as valuable as yours.


This forum has a very effective "search box". Please use it.



jarlmaster47 wrote:

Sorry. I'm new and still haven't found a place to find reliable up to date information with regards to what Comcast is doing. If you have a link to that up to date information, I'd love to look at it. I am familiar with the UHD sampler app but it's pitiful and doesn't even really work like you said. Part of my motive to make "yet another 4K thread" is to push Comcast and keep bugging them about it. The services they provide have improved DRAMATICALLY in the last few years, especially with customer service, because people complained enough, gave bad reviews, etc. Comcast listened and made big changes. So I hope they will continue down that road and want to do my part to get them there. 

 

If comcast does in fact downgrade their cable service to 720p (which I don't see any evidence of no matter where I look) they'll be reducing my monthly bill. I would switch to direcTV but having the equivalent services I have now between the two would be very costly. Boy I hate monopolies lol. 

 

Comcast definitely is more concerned with gigabit internet and that's all well all and good (their internet service has been perfect for me in the 3 months I've been with them) but they definitely need to not neglect TV. 

 

So thanks for the response. Please link me to your source for all of this info on what they are doing. 






Then don't provide them. If you're so tired of it don't do it or leave the forum. Yet you jumped on here to answer my questions.... If your time is so precious than why are you on here answering everyone's questions? Don't be obnoxious about it. 

Regular Contributor

Re: Xi6 release date and more 4K content?

When you set the output of the box to 1080p, it simply means that regardless of what comes in, the output will be 1080p. 480p going in comes out trying to look like 1080p, and so on. Nothing on cable (or satellite or OTA, for that matter) has ever been broadcast in 1080p. Only 1080i or 720p.

CIAO!

Ed N.
Contributor

Re: Xi6 release date and more 4K content?

Got it. Figured as much but wasn't quite sure. So essentially it doesn't matter what they broadcast in. It will be converted and output as 1080p. Cool. I mean I'm sure there's some slight image reproduction degradation when converting from 1080i or 720p relative to if I was getting a true 1080p broadcast but meh. Why not broadcast in 1080p? Not enough bandwith?

Regular Contributor

Re: Xi6 release date and more 4K content?


jarlmaster47 wrote:

Got it. Figured as much but wasn't quite sure. So essentially it doesn't matter what they broadcast in. It will be converted and output as 1080p. Cool. I mean I'm sure there's some slight image reproduction degradation when converting from 1080i or 720p relative to if I was getting a true 1080p broadcast but meh. Why not broadcast in 1080p? Not enough bandwith?


That's absolutely correct.


CIAO!

Ed N.
Problem Solver

Re: Xi6 release date and more 4K content?

The best signal for over the air and Comcast cable is 1080i (1920 x 1080) / 60i. That is 2.1 million pixels. Here in the Twin Cities Comcast has already down-graded over a hundred channels to 720p MPEG 4. That is (1280 x 720) / 60p. That is 0.921 million pixels. They only left the over the air network channels at 1080i plus the NFL HD channel, and NBC Sports channel at (1920 x 1080) 60i.

 

That put us back to around 2004 when most HD televisions were only 720p. Those televisions had only 45% as many pixels has the new 1080p televisions, and the pixals on the screen would be twice the size of a 1080p set. If you had a screen smaller than 40 inches most of the people might not notice a difference.

 

My 2015 Samsung 3D UHD television allows me to see the signal output by the cable-box on each channel watched. The output shown in my first paragraph. Other people on another post under "On Demand" use special equipment that gives much more information.

 

 

Problem Solver

Re: Xi6 release date and more 4K content?

Actually, the cable-box with 1080p option can only output 1080p if they ever get set up to play a Blu-Ray movie on cable.

 

The box does not up convert to 1080p. Both 1080i and 1080p have the same number of pixels. 1080i is an interlaced signal which takes 2 screen refreshes to supply to total pixels versus 1 screen for 1080p or 720p. Newer televisions can have faster Motion (refresh) rates. My Samsung runs 120 MR standard mode or 240 MR (sport mode). The cable-box at 1080p will just output what is on each channel. It is set to output the best signal (Just like OTA) produced during a show. It could be: 480p, 720p, or 1080i.

Regular Contributor

Re: Xi6 release date and more 4K content?

That would be akin to a "Native" setting. I was told not too long ago that there is no native setting on the X1 boxes. Now, I'm going to have to play around when I get home. Smiley Wink

 


MNtundraRET wrote:

The cable-box at 1080p will just output what is on each channel. It is set to output the best signal (Just like OTA) produced during a show. It could be: 480p, 720p, or 1080i.


 


CIAO!

Ed N.
Contributor

Re: Xi6 release date and more 4K content?

 


MNtundraRET wrote:

Actually, the cable-box with 1080p option can only output 1080p if they ever get set up to play a Blu-Ray movie on cable.

 

The box does not up convert to 1080p. Both 1080i and 1080p have the same number of pixels. 1080i is an interlaced signal which takes 2 screen refreshes to supply to total pixels versus 1 screen for 1080p or 720p. Newer televisions can have faster Motion (refresh) rates. My Samsung runs 120 MR standard mode or 240 MR (sport mode). The cable-box at 1080p will just output what is on each channel. It is set to output the best signal (Just like OTA) produced during a show. It could be: 480p, 720p, or 1080i.


What a headache. Well whatever. I guess that's what upscaling engines are for. Though I know that the latest X1 cable box (which I have I guess) does have transcoding hardware onboard. So I assume it does output at 1080p. That's the point of plugging a co-ax cable in there and then running an HDMI cable to the TV. Otherwise you could just hook up directly to the TV. 

Gold Problem Solver

Re: Xi6 release date and more 4K content?

I believe in some form of "forum etiquette". I believe in being resourceful.

Repeating something that is discussed weekly (if not daily) in a forum does not constitute what I believe is forum etiquette. It pollutes and degrades any forum.

Along with the X1 forum, I regularly participate in three in three other forums. The "duplications" that often appear in this forum would never be tolerated in the other forums.

You aren't the first person to jump into this forum claiming "they have done research" and you won't be the last. Like I said, this forum has a very effective search box...

Sorry but I am just calling it like I see it...



jarlmaster47 wrote:

RickGr4 wrote:

I am getting tired of providing "links" to forum newbies. My time is just as valuable as yours.


This forum has a very effective "search box". Please use it.



jarlmaster47 wrote:

Sorry. I'm new and still haven't found a place to find reliable up to date information with regards to what Comcast is doing. If you have a link to that up to date information, I'd love to look at it. I am familiar with the UHD sampler app but it's pitiful and doesn't even really work like you said. Part of my motive to make "yet another 4K thread" is to push Comcast and keep bugging them about it. The services they provide have improved DRAMATICALLY in the last few years, especially with customer service, because people complained enough, gave bad reviews, etc. Comcast listened and made big changes. So I hope they will continue down that road and want to do my part to get them there. 

 

If comcast does in fact downgrade their cable service to 720p (which I don't see any evidence of no matter where I look) they'll be reducing my monthly bill. I would switch to direcTV but having the equivalent services I have now between the two would be very costly. Boy I hate monopolies lol. 

 

Comcast definitely is more concerned with gigabit internet and that's all well all and good (their internet service has been perfect for me in the 3 months I've been with them) but they definitely need to not neglect TV. 

 

So thanks for the response. Please link me to your source for all of this info on what they are doing. 






Then don't provide them. If you're so tired of it don't do it or leave the forum. Yet you jumped on here to answer my questions.... If your time is so precious than why are you on here answering everyone's questions? Don't be obnoxious about it. 





Problem Solver

Re: Xi6 release date and more 4K content?

The cable-boxes normally can be set to 480p, 720p, or 1080i.

 

If some owns a SD digital tv they only require 480p. Someone with a 720p tv only requires 720p. The cable-box most likes works faster for those people at the their required setting and saves broadband for Comcast.

 

Since Comcast has converted the vast majority of channels to 720p MPEG, it make sense, as far as they are concerned, to have cable-box default at 720p to save broadband. If someone lives near a metro area thay can still get 1080i over the air. It make sense for them to leave those channels alone since we can switch from cable to OTA to compare the picture.

 

If everyone owned a smart tv, Comcast computer (with certain cable-boxes) "handshakes" with the smart tv to know which level of signal is required for that tv. That ultimately would work best for saving wasted bandwidth.

Contributor

Re: Xi6 release date and more 4K content?


RickGr4 wrote:

I believe in some form of "forum etiquette". I believe in being resourceful.

Repeating something that is discussed weekly (if not daily) in a forum does not constitute what I believe is forum etiquette. It pollutes and degrades any forum.

Along with the X1 forum, I regularly participate in three in three other forums. The "duplications" that often appear in this forum would never be tolerated in the other forums.

You aren't the first person to jump into this forum claiming "they have done research" and you won't be the last. Like I said, this forum has a very effective search box...

Sorry but I am just calling it like I see it...



jarlmaster47 wrote:

RickGr4 wrote:

I am getting tired of providing "links" to forum newbies. My time is just as valuable as yours.


This forum has a very effective "search box". Please use it.



jarlmaster47 wrote:

Sorry. I'm new and still haven't found a place to find reliable up to date information with regards to what Comcast is doing. If you have a link to that up to date information, I'd love to look at it. I am familiar with the UHD sampler app but it's pitiful and doesn't even really work like you said. Part of my motive to make "yet another 4K thread" is to push Comcast and keep bugging them about it. The services they provide have improved DRAMATICALLY in the last few years, especially with customer service, because people complained enough, gave bad reviews, etc. Comcast listened and made big changes. So I hope they will continue down that road and want to do my part to get them there. 

 

If comcast does in fact downgrade their cable service to 720p (which I don't see any evidence of no matter where I look) they'll be reducing my monthly bill. I would switch to direcTV but having the equivalent services I have now between the two would be very costly. Boy I hate monopolies lol. 

 

Comcast definitely is more concerned with gigabit internet and that's all well all and good (their internet service has been perfect for me in the 3 months I've been with them) but they definitely need to not neglect TV. 

 

So thanks for the response. Please link me to your source for all of this info on what they are doing. 






Then don't provide them. If you're so tired of it don't do it or leave the forum. Yet you jumped on here to answer my questions.... If your time is so precious than why are you on here answering everyone's questions? Don't be obnoxious about it. 






Fair enough. 

Regular Contributor

Re: Xi6 release date and more 4K content?


MNtundraRET wrote:

The cable-box at 1080p will just output what is on each channel. It is set to output the best signal (Just like OTA) produced during a show. It could be: 480p, 720p, or 1080i.


I just set my box to 1080p and tuned to an SD channel (80). According to my AVR, the box's output was 1080p.


CIAO!

Ed N.
Service Expert

Re: Xi6 release date and more 4K content?

some background...

 

All flat panel digital televisions take what they get as an input and massage it to an internal progressive format that is delivered to their display panel. If you have 720p source (the new norm) let that go to the TV circuitry in 720p to process (less conversion = less noise). 

 

basically.... in declining order and not counting UHD/4K/8K etc it is 1080p  720p60 1080i  -- and that is why comcast is upgrading for consistency to 720p60. A side benefit is that in progressive format the streams provided can be easily scaled to the bandwidth available.




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Gold Problem Solver

Re: Xi6 release date and more 4K content?

Rusty,

Please stop promoting the downgrade to 720p as an upgrade.

1080p is widely available. 4K is here. 8K is not far away.

Anyone that supports 720p is misinformed and foolish.

Maybe if you owned better TV sets you would care more about this...



Rustyben wrote:

some background...

 

All flat panel digital televisions take what they get as an input and massage it to an internal progressive format that is delivered to their display panel. If you have 720p source (the new norm) let that go to the TV circuitry in 720p to process (less conversion = less noise). 

 

basically.... in declining order and not counting UHD/4K/8K etc it is 1080p  720p60 1080i  -- and that is why comcast is upgrading for consistency to 720p60. A side benefit is that in progressive format the streams provided can be easily scaled to the bandwidth available.


 

Contributor

Re: Xi6 release date and more 4K content?


RickGr4 wrote:

Rusty,

Please stop promoting the downgrade to 720p as an upgrade.

1080p is widely available. 4K is here. 8K is not far away.

Anyone that supports 720p is misinformed and foolish.

Maybe if you owned better TV sets you would care more about this...



Rustyben wrote:

some background...

 

All flat panel digital televisions take what they get as an input and massage it to an internal progressive format that is delivered to their display panel. If you have 720p source (the new norm) let that go to the TV circuitry in 720p to process (less conversion = less noise). 

 

basically.... in declining order and not counting UHD/4K/8K etc it is 1080p  720p60 1080i  -- and that is why comcast is upgrading for consistency to 720p60. A side benefit is that in progressive format the streams provided can be easily scaled to the bandwidth available.


 Well 720p60 is better than 1080i for fast motion televison, which most of TV is. Progressive scan is far superior to interpolated. 1080i is better for documentaries and other "slow" TV shows. And given that cable boxes transcode the signal into whatever format you desire, coupled with the quality upscaling engines in most high quality TV's (Samsung, LG, Sony, even Vizio is good) I don't think it matters all that much. In addition, from different articles I've read, it appears that no one broadcasts in 1080p. PPV channels and some sports but no other channels. That's not Comcast's fault. That's on TV stations being cheap and lazy. Unfortunately they don't listen to any customer feedback whatsoever and couldn't care less how consumers feel. And frankly, it seems like no one is all that further along in terms of 4K broadcasting. DirecTV seems most dedicated to the medium but they only have one 4K channel currently. Their picture quality is better but that's because they are satellite (a big reason why they are more expensive). At least that's my understanding of it. That being said, Comcast could certainly be doing more to push 1080p at least if not 4K. Further upgrading of their cables to fiber optic and pushing out the Xi6 (or some 4K capable box) too. I'll keep pestering them lol. 


Service Expert

Re: Xi6 release date and more 4K content?

The MPAA requires much tighter security on higher than 1080 television/streaming. To put on a linear channel the stream would have to be in MPEG4 or higher. On-demand or a streaming app service that is IP streamed DoCSIS level must be at 3.1 or higher (the end to end encryption removes possibility of man-in-the-middle intercept of non encrypted stream). I can understand that being a requirement. I have no inside data of Comcast's plans but my guess is any new set top box will be receiving an IP stream until the particular area converts their local plant to 3.1 DoCSIS. 

 

Edit: had to rework that whole paragraph.




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Was your question answered? Mark a Best Answer!solution Icon
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Problem Solver

Re: Xi6 release date and more 4K content?

Ed:

 

On your reply about channel 80 (SD) I think you are only reading your cable-box's ultimate output meaning 1080i for a 1080i channel.

 

I have a Cisco RGN 150N cable-box. All these cable-boxes used by Comcast operate differently. I don't have a channel 80 listed in my service area.

 

If I put on channel 69 (SD) NGEO (National Geographic channel in standard digital) the output signal is: (720 x 480) / 60i. I can't tell if the SD channels have gone through any conversion.

 

I don't know if your older Samsung UHD tv operates different from my 2015 model. While you are on a cable channel (80  for example) use your Samsung remote and select source. You should see the HDMI icon set to Cable. Just press the select button on your Samsung remote. My tv shows (720 x 480) / 60i for the cable-box specific channel output on a top left bar on my screen for about 5 seconds before disappearing.

Gold Problem Solver

Re: Xi6 release date and more 4K content?


Rustyben wrote: ... 1080 television/streaming. To put on a linear channel the stream would have to be in MPEG4 or higher. On-demand or a streaming app service that is IP streamed DoCSIS level must be at 3.1 or higher ...

Can you cite an authoritative source for any of that? Note that "I read it somewhere" and "Google it" are NOT authoritative citations.

Regular Contributor

Re: Xi6 release date and more 4K content?

Seriously? So, in order to watch a 4K program on Netflix or Amazon or any of the other streaming services that offer 4K programming, the Internet service must be DOCSIS 3.1? I guess that most of America can't enjoy any of those 4K programs then, as there are only a handful of DOCSIS 3.1 systems in the country (at this time). Good thing that I don't have DSL either, as DSL can never be DOCSIS 3.1 compliant. And I was so looking forward to season 2 of The Man in the High Castle on Amazon.

 


Rustyben wrote:

On-demand or a streaming app service that is IP streamed DoCSIS level must be at 3.1 or higher (the end to end encryption removes possibility of man-in-the-middle intercept of non encrypted stream).


DOCSIS has nothing at all to do with linear channels (QAM or analog).  DOCSIS (1.0, 2.0, 3.0, or 3.1 is a specification concerning internet).

 


Rustyben wrote:

...my guess is any new set top box will be receiving an IP stream until the particular area converts their local plant to 3.1 DoCSIS.


 


CIAO!

Ed N.
Regular Contributor

Re: Xi6 release date and more 4K content?

Mark, My AVR has the capability of showing me what type of signal is present at its HDMI input as well as its HDMI output. The only other thing I can do is set my AVR to just pass through the signal and see what the TV says, which I will do a little bit later on this morning. My TV operates the same as yours in regards to reading the source signal (the button is labeled "info").

CIAO!

Ed N.
Gold Problem Solver

Re: Xi6 release date and more 4K content?

Ed,

Which AV receiver do you have and have you ever tried the built in scaler?
Regular Contributor

Re: Xi6 release date and more 4K content?

Onkyo TX-NR838. The scaler works great. I can set it to "Through," which is off, 480p, 720p, 1680x720p, 1080i, 1080p, 2560x1080p, 4K, or Auto, which matches the output to what the TV set can do. With it turned off, the TV sees whatever I have the box set to -- 720x480/60i, 720x480/60p, 1280x720/60p, 1920x1080/60i, or 1920x1080/60p).

 


RickGr4 wrote:
Ed,

Which AV receiver do you have and have you ever tried the built in scaler?

CIAO!

Ed N.
Gold Problem Solver

Re: Xi6 release date and more 4K content?

Our receivers are at a similar level. I have a Marantz SR7010.

I love my 7010 (there is something to the "Marantz sound") but I found that like you, I had to leave the internal scaler off. Turning it on degraded the picture quality.

I have had both Sony and Samsung TV reps tell me they are aware of this picture degradation and they always recommend that an AV receivers internal scaler should remain off.

Apologies to the OP for this thread going off topic...
Regular Contributor

Re: Xi6 release date and more 4K content?

Yeah, it usually is best to let the TV do the scaling. Marantz has been the king for decades. Are all of the HDMI inputs HDCP 2.2 capable? They are, aren't they?

CIAO!

Ed N.
Gold Problem Solver

Re: Xi6 release date and more 4K content?

Yes. That is one of the reasons I bought it.

In my new AV receiver I wanted:

1. All HDMI inputs HDCP 2.2.
2. Dolby Atmos.
3. Latest Audessey room calibration.
4. Well known IR codes.
5. Decent power.
6. Extensive front panel and on screen displays.
7. Here is the kicker. I wanted analog 7.1 inputs for multi channel SACD (which I think sounds incredible).

You might be surprised how few AV receivers hit all of those nails on the head...
Regular Contributor

Re: Xi6 release date and more 4K content?

The only thing I would add to that is HD Radio. I had it with my TX-NR636 and absolutely loved it, but they did away with that option. I also miss the vTuner. But, life goes on...

CIAO!

Ed N.
Service Expert

Re: Xi6 release date and more 4K content?


BruceW wrote:

Rustyben wrote: ... 1080 television/streaming. To put on a linear channel the stream would have to be in MPEG4 or higher. On-demand or a streaming app service that is IP streamed DoCSIS level must be at 3.1 or higher ...

Can you cite an authoritative source for any of that? Note that "I read it somewhere" and "Google it" are NOT authoritative citations.


https://apps.cablelabs.com/specification/docsis-3-1-security-specification/ will have 6 links that discuss the new security features. the MPAA drives nearly all requirements as they push for the security of IP (Intellectual Property). The basics is that CM/CMTS must upgrade (in progress) to eliminate current attack vectors where a CM's software is compromised. The 3.1 protocol establishes full security over the CM software by using factory installed security certificates. MPAA accepted MPEG4 as an encryption vehicle.

 

As Comcast moves to DocSIS 3.1 the CM we have now will age out. I probably will 'rent' a comcast 3.1 at that time until 3.1 becomes commodity priced.




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Re: Xi6 release date and more 4K content?


egnlsn wrote:

Seriously? So, in order to watch a 4K program on Netflix or Amazon or any of the other streaming services that offer 4K programming, the Internet service must be DOCSIS 3.1? I guess that most of America can't enjoy any of those 4K programs then, as there are only a handful of DOCSIS 3.1 systems in the country (at this time). Good thing that I don't have DSL either, as DSL can never be DOCSIS 3.1 compliant. And I was so looking forward to season 2 of The Man in the High Castle on Amazon.

 


Rustyben wrote:

On-demand or a streaming app service that is IP streamed DoCSIS level must be at 3.1 or higher (the end to end encryption removes possibility of man-in-the-middle intercept of non encrypted stream).


DOCSIS has nothing at all to do with linear channels (QAM or analog).  DOCSIS (1.0, 2.0, 3.0, or 3.1 is a specification concerning internet).

 


Rustyben wrote:

...my guess is any new set top box will be receiving an IP stream until the particular area converts their local plant to 3.1 DoCSIS. 


When fully implemented, yes a 3.1 will be required for > 2x HD. In the interim MPEG4 is accepted as I understand as a sufficient encryption method. Comcast seems IMO to be moving toward IP service, away from QAM. I guess time will tell unless someone here has heard definitively.




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Service Expert

Re: Xi6 release date and more 4K content?


egnlsn wrote:
Mark, My AVR has the capability of showing me what type of signal is present at its HDMI input as well as its HDMI output. The only other thing I can do is set my AVR to just pass through the signal and see what the TV says, which I will do a little bit later on this morning. My TV operates the same as yours in regards to reading the source signal (the button is labeled "info").

that is cool. does it indicate the frame rate too (like 720p60)? Has your area converted to the mpeg4 type? I'd really like to know the before/after mpeg4 conversion frame rate. I'm guessing pre-conversion it is 720p30 and after is 720p60.




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Gold Problem Solver

Re: Xi6 release date and more 4K content?

Which means every single X1 DVR (and possibly every X1 box) currently in service would be obsolete. I find that extremely hard to believe...



Rustyben wrote:

egnlsn wrote:

Seriously? So, in order to watch a 4K program on Netflix or Amazon or any of the other streaming services that offer 4K programming, the Internet service must be DOCSIS 3.1? I guess that most of America can't enjoy any of those 4K programs then, as there are only a handful of DOCSIS 3.1 systems in the country (at this time). Good thing that I don't have DSL either, as DSL can never be DOCSIS 3.1 compliant. And I was so looking forward to season 2 of The Man in the High Castle on Amazon.

 


Rustyben wrote:

On-demand or a streaming app service that is IP streamed DoCSIS level must be at 3.1 or higher (the end to end encryption removes possibility of man-in-the-middle intercept of non encrypted stream).


DOCSIS has nothing at all to do with linear channels (QAM or analog).  DOCSIS (1.0, 2.0, 3.0, or 3.1 is a specification concerning internet).

 


Rustyben wrote:

...my guess is any new set top box will be receiving an IP stream until the particular area converts their local plant to 3.1 DoCSIS. 


When fully implemented, yes a 3.1 will be required for > 2x HD. In the interim MPEG4 is accepted as I understand as a sufficient encryption method. Comcast seems IMO to be moving toward IP service, away from QAM. I guess time will tell unless someone here has heard definitively.


 

Service Expert

Re: Xi6 release date and more 4K content?


RickGr4 wrote:

Which means every single X1 DVR (and possibly every X1 box) currently is service would be obsolete. I find that extremely hard to believe...



Rustyben wrote:

egnlsn wrote:

Seriously? So, in order to watch a 4K program on Netflix or Amazon or any of the other streaming services that offer 4K programming, the Internet service must be DOCSIS 3.1? I guess that most of America can't enjoy any of those 4K programs then, as there are only a handful of DOCSIS 3.1 systems in the country (at this time). Good thing that I don't have DSL either, as DSL can never be DOCSIS 3.1 compliant. And I was so looking forward to season 2 of The Man in the High Castle on Amazon.

 


Rustyben wrote:

On-demand or a streaming app service that is IP streamed DoCSIS level must be at 3.1 or higher (the end to end encryption removes possibility of man-in-the-middle intercept of non encrypted stream).


DOCSIS has nothing at all to do with linear channels (QAM or analog).  DOCSIS (1.0, 2.0, 3.0, or 3.1 is a specification concerning internet).

 


Rustyben wrote:

...my guess is any new set top box will be receiving an IP stream until the particular area converts their local plant to 3.1 DoCSIS. 


When fully implemented, yes a 3.1 will be required for > 2x HD. In the interim MPEG4 is accepted as I understand as a sufficient encryption method. Comcast seems IMO to be moving toward IP service, away from QAM. I guess time will tell unless someone here has heard definitively.


 


I know I will want to upgrade to 3.1 to get gigabit   I don't know what the pricing will be, but I replaced my last Comcast gateway at no charge or increase in price.

 

http://corporate.comcast.com/news-information/news-feed/comcast-to-deliver-gigabit-internet-service-...




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Service Expert

Re: Xi6 release date and more 4K content?


RobertWy wrote:

RickGr4 wrote:

Which means every single X1 DVR (and possibly every X1 box) currently is service would be obsolete. I find that extremely hard to believe...



Rustyben wrote:

egnlsn wrote:

Seriously? So, in order to watch a 4K program on Netflix or Amazon or any of the other streaming services that offer 4K programming, the Internet service must be DOCSIS 3.1? I guess that most of America can't enjoy any of those 4K programs then, as there are only a handful of DOCSIS 3.1 systems in the country (at this time). Good thing that I don't have DSL either, as DSL can never be DOCSIS 3.1 compliant. And I was so looking forward to season 2 of The Man in the High Castle on Amazon.

 


Rustyben wrote:

On-demand or a streaming app service that is IP streamed DoCSIS level must be at 3.1 or higher (the end to end encryption removes possibility of man-in-the-middle intercept of non encrypted stream).


DOCSIS has nothing at all to do with linear channels (QAM or analog).  DOCSIS (1.0, 2.0, 3.0, or 3.1 is a specification concerning internet).

 


Rustyben wrote:

...my guess is any new set top box will be receiving an IP stream until the particular area converts their local plant to 3.1 DoCSIS. 


When fully implemented, yes a 3.1 will be required for > 2x HD. In the interim MPEG4 is accepted as I understand as a sufficient encryption method. Comcast seems IMO to be moving toward IP service, away from QAM. I guess time will tell unless someone here has heard definitively.


 


I know I will want to upgrade to 3.1 to get gigabit   I don't know what the pricing will be, but I replaced my last Comcast gateway at no charge or increase in price.

 

http://corporate.comcast.com/news-information/news-feed/comcast-to-deliver-gigabit-internet-service-...


my calculator says will only take 133 minutes to burn through 1,000 GB (1 T cap.




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Regular Contributor

Re: Xi6 release date and more 4K content?


Rustyben wrote:

When fully implemented, yes a 3.1 will be required for > 2x HD. In the interim MPEG4 is accepted as I understand as a sufficient encryption method. Comcast seems IMO to be moving toward IP service, away from QAM. I guess time will tell unless someone here has heard definitively.


Considering that DOCSIS is a cable specification (Date Over Cable Service Interface Specification), I guess that means that anybody with a non-cable ISP (such as DSL, FIOS, or wireless) cannot enjoy 4K programs.


CIAO!

Ed N.
Regular Contributor

Re: Xi6 release date and more 4K content?


Rustyben wrote:

egnlsn wrote:
Mark, My AVR has the capability of showing me what type of signal is present at its HDMI input as well as its HDMI output. The only other thing I can do is set my AVR to just pass through the signal and see what the TV says, which I will do a little bit later on this morning. My TV operates the same as yours in regards to reading the source signal (the button is labeled "info").

that is cool. does it indicate the frame rate too (like 720p60)? Has your area converted to the mpeg4 type? I'd really like to know the before/after mpeg4 conversion frame rate. I'm guessing pre-conversion it is 720p30 and after is 720p60.


My TV does, but seeing as how there is no native option on my ARRIS box, I cannot see that information.  On the diagnostics page, I can see the frequency each tuner is tuned to and whether it's MPEG 2 or 4, but that's it.  The resolution and frame rate would be so nice to see.  I used to know a website that listed what services were on what frequency by system, but that was several years ago and I don't remember what it was.

 

 


CIAO!

Ed N.
Service Expert

Re: Xi6 release date and more 4K content?


egnlsn wrote:

Rustyben wrote:

egnlsn wrote:
Mark, My AVR has the capability of showing me what type of signal is present at its HDMI input as well as its HDMI output. The only other thing I can do is set my AVR to just pass through the signal and see what the TV says, which I will do a little bit later on this morning. My TV operates the same as yours in regards to reading the source signal (the button is labeled "info").

that is cool. does it indicate the frame rate too (like 720p60)? Has your area converted to the mpeg4 type? I'd really like to know the before/after mpeg4 conversion frame rate. I'm guessing pre-conversion it is 720p30 and after is 720p60.


My TV does, but seeing as how there is no native option on my ARRIS box, I cannot see that information.  On the diagnostics page, I can see the frequency each tuner is tuned to and whether it's MPEG 2 or 4, but that's it.  The resolution and frame rate would be so nice to see.  I used to know a website that listed what services were on what frequency by system, but that was several years ago and I don't remember what it was.


What I had read said local channels would continue to be in mpeg2 but all others in mpeg4. So you have already converted. That means your 'native' is now 720p60 ?

 




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Regular Contributor

Re: Xi6 release date and more 4K content?


Rustyben wrote:


member what it was.

What I had read said local channels would continue to be in mpeg2 but all others in mpeg4. So you have already converted. That means your 'native' is now 720p60 ?

 


Unfortunately, that seems to be the case.  I just showed my wife cable compared to OTA.  Hopefully, an ATSC DVR will be in the near future... Smiley Wink


CIAO!

Ed N.
New Poster

Re: Xi6 release date and more 4K content?

No downgrading is going on. The new format will be mpeg4 @ 1080p 60 fps.
Gold Problem Solver

Re: Xi6 release date and more 4K content?

Please provide your source of your information.

Comcast employees and members of this forum have confirmed the "downgrade" to 720p is now rolling across Comcast markets.
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