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another copy protection issue, can ComcastTeds help?

Frequent Visitor

another copy protection issue, can ComcastTeds help?

I got a new cable box last Friday, August 25, and now I seem to be experiencing issues similar to those described in previous threads such as these:

 

http://forums.xfinity.com/t5/Non-X1-Service/Copy-Protection-set-on-all-channels/m-p/2424973

http://forums.xfinity.com/t5/Non-X1-Service/New-cablecard-and-TiVo-Copy-protect-flag-set-for-all-cha...

http://forums.xfinity.com/t5/Non-X1-Service/Copy-protection-flag-on-every-channel-Cable-card-with-In...

 

I asked for my old box back but they refused.  I was told it was an FCC regulation that they had to add this copy protection, but that makes no sense, because I'm trying to record over the air channels, and they do not have this flag set over the air, nor do they even have it set in the signal coming from Comcast (since I can still record if using a DTA box), but something in the new X1 box itself seems to be setting it.  Is there some setting I can make to turn it off, or something you can send?

 

I was told to call customer solutions and they could get me an old box.  They told me on Saturday they were sending one, but it arrived today and it's the exact same new model.  I called again and customer solutions sent me to technical support, who say they are sending another of my old model box, but we'll see when it arrives.  I might prefer to have a DCH100 instead, which I think is what I had several years ago, and all things considered may be the best I've had.

 

But if the flag can be turned off on the X1 box, that might work well.  The weirdest thing is that the over the air channels that were recordable before can't be recorded now, but the ones that were recordable before just not copyable are now still recordable and not copyable, same as before.  That's why this seems like a bug.  Why would the copy protection be more severe on the channels that are not natively marked as non-copyable?

 

I've spoken with at least 10 people about this issue, and no one fully understands what I'm talking about.  If this can't be solved, I'm not sure there's a reason to keep Comcast.  I've been with you for 22 years, but if I can't record something to watch later (which I do every night) on my own equipment as I've always been able to do in the past, its usefulness to me is greatly reduced.

 

Thank you if this can be fixed!!

Frequent Visitor

Re: another copy protection issue, can ComcastTeds help?

Just to clarify, I believe it was actually the DCH70 that I had a few years ago, not the DCH100, but I'm guessing either would work about the same.  It was the DCT700 that I traded in last week and which they're supposedly sending me now.  The issue with that is it only does 2 days in advance in the guide rather than a week or two, and also seems to have glitches regarding repeating recordings, but if I can at least record with it, it's better than what I have now.

Frequent Visitor

Re: another copy protection issue, can ComcastTeds help?

Further clarification, the model of cable box I got on Friday is Pace PR150BNM.  The others referenced above are Motorola.

 

I don't find this new model listed at https://www.xfinity.com/support/cable-tv/cable-box-user-manuals/ but it seems somewhat similar to the RNG150N which is listed there.  I went through the settings menu for the cable box as described on page 14, but found nothing relevant to my issue.

Official Employee

Re: another copy protection issue, can ComcastTeds help?


jbmorris13 wrote:

I got a new cable box last Friday, August 25, and now I seem to be experiencing issues similar to those described in previous threads such as these:

 

http://forums.xfinity.com/t5/Non-X1-Service/Copy-Protection-set-on-all-channels/m-p/2424973

http://forums.xfinity.com/t5/Non-X1-Service/New-cablecard-and-TiVo-Copy-protect-flag-set-for-all-cha...

http://forums.xfinity.com/t5/Non-X1-Service/Copy-protection-flag-on-every-channel-Cable-card-with-In...

 

I asked for my old box back but they refused.  I was told it was an FCC regulation that they had to add this copy protection, but that makes no sense, because I'm trying to record over the air channels, and they do not have this flag set over the air, nor do they even have it set in the signal coming from Comcast (since I can still record if using a DTA box), but something in the new X1 box itself seems to be setting it.  Is there some setting I can make to turn it off, or something you can send?

 

I was told to call customer solutions and they could get me an old box.  They told me on Saturday they were sending one, but it arrived today and it's the exact same new model.  I called again and customer solutions sent me to technical support, who say they are sending another of my old model box, but we'll see when it arrives.  I might prefer to have a DCH100 instead, which I think is what I had several years ago, and all things considered may be the best I've had.

 

But if the flag can be turned off on the X1 box, that might work well.  The weirdest thing is that the over the air channels that were recordable before can't be recorded now, but the ones that were recordable before just not copyable are now still recordable and not copyable, same as before.  That's why this seems like a bug.  Why would the copy protection be more severe on the channels that are not natively marked as non-copyable?

 

I've spoken with at least 10 people about this issue, and no one fully understands what I'm talking about.  If this can't be solved, I'm not sure there's a reason to keep Comcast.  I've been with you for 22 years, but if I can't record something to watch later (which I do every night) on my own equipment as I've always been able to do in the past, its usefulness to me is greatly reduced.

 

Thank you if this can be fixed!!


Apologies for the delay, taking a look at this now and looping in some additional team members. To be clear, the other issues that you cited in the first post are a bit different in that they relate to cable cards on customer-owned devices. Your issue appears to be related to a Comcast-provided Pace RNG 150N P2 device.

 

Similar symptoms, different devices. Either way, we will take a look and see what's happening. Thanks for your patience.  

 

  


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Frequent Visitor

Re: another copy protection issue, can ComcastTeds help?

THANK YOU SO MUCH for your reply!  I got a call yesterday from a rep at the national level who did his best to help.  The problem is not solved as yet.  He said it would not work with the X1 box, and I need to get an older box, which is what I've been trying to do, but so far have not been able to.  He suggested a few additional things to try.

 

1. There may be legacy boxes at a Comcast store in a nearby city, the closest being nearly an hour's drive.  I am happy to drive out to pick it up if we can confirm they have one, but there are no phone numbers available to contact the local stores!  He couldn't even access a phone number, and suggested I drive to my local office to ask if they could contact one of the other stores, but they said they have no way to do so, and the only phone number associated with their store is their manager's cell phone number.  This bewilders me.

 

2. I had previously asked the customer solutions department and then the technical support department to send me a legacy box.  He suggested I try the billing department, so I called them, but they said they couldn't do that.

 

3. He scheduled a repair appointment for me for next Tuesday morning, hoping the technician may have some older models on the truck.  We'll see if that works or not.

 

Only while researching this issue did I find out that Comcast allows us to buy our own cable boxes and they will give us a cable card to put in it.  I wish I had known that several years ago when analog cable was dispensed with and we had to start renting these boxes!  I always prefer buying to renting.

 

Unfortunately Comcast doesn't support us buying a Motorola box because they say Motorola doesn't sell them to consumers, therefore any I would purchase would be stolen from Comcast.  I have seen some on ebay.  I have thought I could buy one from ebay, then return the stolen merchandise to Comcast, then they could rent it back to me, but I'm sure the local office wouldn't go for that.

 

Do you know which of the boxes Comcast does support would work for me?  Also, are they planning to discontinue support for any of them at any point in time?

 

Another thing I've thought about is surely the local office is getting in old boxes in trade on a semi-regular basis, so could someone from the national level contact the local office and instruct them to let me have one of them the next time they get one in?  I'm flabbergasted at how difficult it is proving to do something that seems simple to me, and also how different departments have widely varying views on Comcast policies.

 

I'm still confused why the X1 box can't have some setting changed to make it work.  It has the "record to VCR" option in the menu the same as other boxes which work for that purpose.  If it's designed not to work for that, why is the option still there?  And it still makes no sense to me that the previously copy protected channels CAN be recorded, but the non-copy protected channels (which are the majority, at least in my package) cannot.  That seems backwards.

 

P.S. Apparently the 150 I have now is Motorola not Pace, although I don't see where it indicates manufacturer anywhere on it.

Official Employee

Re: another copy protection issue, can ComcastTeds help?


jbmorris13 wrote:

THANK YOU SO MUCH for your reply!  I got a call yesterday from a rep at the national level who did his best to help.  The problem is not solved as yet.  He said it would not work with the X1 box, and I need to get an older box, which is what I've been trying to do, but so far have not been able to.  He suggested a few additional things to try.

 

1. There may be legacy boxes at a Comcast store in a nearby city, the closest being nearly an hour's drive.  I am happy to drive out to pick it up if we can confirm they have one, but there are no phone numbers available to contact the local stores!  He couldn't even access a phone number, and suggested I drive to my local office to ask if they could contact one of the other stores, but they said they have no way to do so, and the only phone number associated with their store is their manager's cell phone number.  This bewilders me.

 

2. I had previously asked the customer solutions department and then the technical support department to send me a legacy box.  He suggested I try the billing department, so I called them, but they said they couldn't do that.

 

3. He scheduled a repair appointment for me for next Tuesday morning, hoping the technician may have some older models on the truck.  We'll see if that works or not.

 

Only while researching this issue did I find out that Comcast allows us to buy our own cable boxes and they will give us a cable card to put in it.  I wish I had known that several years ago when analog cable was dispensed with and we had to start renting these boxes!  I always prefer buying to renting.

 

Unfortunately Comcast doesn't support us buying a Motorola box because they say Motorola doesn't sell them to consumers, therefore any I would purchase would be stolen from Comcast.  I have seen some on ebay.  I have thought I could buy one from ebay, then return the stolen merchandise to Comcast, then they could rent it back to me, but I'm sure the local office wouldn't go for that.

 

Do you know which of the boxes Comcast does support would work for me?  Also, are they planning to discontinue support for any of them at any point in time?

 

Another thing I've thought about is surely the local office is getting in old boxes in trade on a semi-regular basis, so could someone from the national level contact the local office and instruct them to let me have one of them the next time they get one in?  I'm flabbergasted at how difficult it is proving to do something that seems simple to me, and also how different departments have widely varying views on Comcast policies.

 

I'm still confused why the X1 box can't have some setting changed to make it work.  It has the "record to VCR" option in the menu the same as other boxes which work for that purpose.  If it's designed not to work for that, why is the option still there?  And it still makes no sense to me that the previously copy protected channels CAN be recorded, but the non-copy protected channels (which are the majority, at least in my package) cannot.  That seems backwards.

 

P.S. Apparently the 150 I have now is Motorola not Pace, although I don't see where it indicates manufacturer anywhere on it.


We can ship you an older legacy box if that is what you want. Let me know (after your upcoming technician visit) if that is what you would like to do and we can make that happen. 

 

We support Tivos and other customer owned devices that use a cable card.  

Some details here: http://forums.xfinity.com/t5/TV/Can-I-buy-my-own-DVR-or-cable-box/ta-p/2940518

 

What error message are you seeing on the box (or on your device) that indicates that this is a DRM or copy protection issue?

 

Are you able to grab a screen shot or photo of that to provide and describe exactly the steps on how you got to that scenario and what you are trying to do?

 

What output are you using to attempt to record (HDMI, composite, component, IEEE 1394 firewire, RF output, USB, etc.) and to what specific device type (make and model #) and input (HDMI, composite, component, IEEE 1394 firewire, RF output, USB, etc.) are you trying to record to (VCR, hard drive, DVD recorder, etc)?     

 

That will help to better understand and track this down.

 

  

 

 


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Re: another copy protection issue, can ComcastTeds help?

Thank you so much for your willingness to help!

 

There are no errors displaying on the cable box.

 

The specific DVR I'm using is a Toshiba RD-XS54 which I bought in 2005.  I have it connected via RCA jacks (white/red for audio, yellow for composite video).

 

When I press record on the DVR, with most channels, for instance Antenna TV (channel 110 in my market), it records for 4 seconds and then says "Source content is copy protected.  Recording has been paused."  If I look at the details on that 4-second recording, the recorder has added ":CP-A" to the title of the program.  With the prior boxes I had, I could record Antenna TV and most channels with no problem.  The only time I recall encountering this message before when recording from a Comcast channel was on AMC.

 

A few channels such as TV Land (49) and Comedy Central (62), will record fine, and if I look at the details of the program it says "Copy Never".  This is the same as it has been for several years with other cable boxes.  Those are what I meant by "copy protected" channels.  It doesn't make sense to me that free over-the-air channels like Antenna TV would have a higher level of copy protection on them.

 

If you can ship me a legacy box, that would be wonderful!  It would be cheaper to pay the shipping on that than pay the $60 for the technician visit, although it's not clear to me if I'll be charged if all he does is drop off the box and doesn't come in to set it up, or if he doesn't even have any legacy boxes to start with.

 

Do you have any of these Motorola models available?  DCH100, DCH70, DCT700 - those are in my order of preference.  The DCT700 only shows 2 days of programming on the guide, so it is my least favorite option among these.

 

i can research the various models on the page you linked to and see which ones are cable boxes and which are DVRs.  I just need a cable box.  But if I can get one through Comcast, that is fine.

Official Employee

Re: another copy protection issue, can ComcastTeds help?


jbmorris13 wrote:

Thank you so much for your willingness to help!

 

There are no errors displaying on the cable box.

 

The specific DVR I'm using is a Toshiba RD-XS54 which I bought in 2005.  I have it connected via RCA jacks (white/red for audio, yellow for composite video).

 

When I press record on the DVR, with most channels, for instance Antenna TV (channel 110 in my market), it records for 4 seconds and then says "Source content is copy protected.  Recording has been paused."  If I look at the details on that 4-second recording, the recorder has added ":CP-A" to the title of the program.  With the prior boxes I had, I could record Antenna TV and most channels with no problem.  The only time I recall encountering this message before when recording from a Comcast channel was on AMC.

 

A few channels such as TV Land (49) and Comedy Central (62), will record fine, and if I look at the details of the program it says "Copy Never".  This is the same as it has been for several years with other cable boxes.  Those are what I meant by "copy protected" channels.  It doesn't make sense to me that free over-the-air channels like Antenna TV would have a higher level of copy protection on them.

 

If you can ship me a legacy box, that would be wonderful!  It would be cheaper to pay the shipping on that than pay the $60 for the technician visit, although it's not clear to me if I'll be charged if all he does is drop off the box and doesn't come in to set it up, or if he doesn't even have any legacy boxes to start with.

 

Do you have any of these Motorola models available?  DCH100, DCH70, DCT700 - those are in my order of preference.  The DCT700 only shows 2 days of programming on the guide, so it is my least favorite option among these.

 

i can research the various models on the page you linked to and see which ones are cable boxes and which are DVRs.  I just need a cable box.  But if I can get one through Comcast, that is fine.


Thanks for providing the additional information above. That is very helpful to better understand what external device you have, how it is connected and what you are trying to do. 

 

I have looped in a few others offline from our local technical team who can check that the settings for these channels are correctly set.  

I would recommend that you keep the scheduled technician appointment that you have for 9/12 for now while the team investigates further.  

 

I would also recommend that you contact Toshiba (the manufacturer of your device) and inquire if this specific device model is MPEG-4 capable. We have moved several channels to MPEG-4  delivery in this area and your external device may not be capable of decoding an MPEG-4 signal. 

 

 


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Re: another copy protection issue, can ComcastTeds help?


I have looped in a few others offline from our local technical team who can check that the settings for these channels are correctly set.


I would recommend that you keep the scheduled technician appointment that you have for 9/12 for now while the team investigates further.  

 

I would also recommend that you contact Toshiba (the manufacturer of your device) and inquire if this specific device model is MPEG-4 capable. We have moved several channels to MPEG-4  delivery in this area and your external device may not be capable of decoding an MPEG-4 signal.


This is a discontinued model of DVR from Toshiba, and I doubt they could tell me much about it at this point.  I can call Toshiba to see if they know, but I'm not sure why the DVR would be trying to decode anything, since by the time it gets to the DVR it's a standard RCA analog composite video signal.  Also, to reiterate, Antenna TV and networks can still be recorded with the DVR if I use a DTA instead of the new X1 cable box.  From this, I assume the issue is inside the cable box, not in the signal coming from Comcast, but I guess it could be that there's a signal coming from Comcast that is not being understood by the older DTA and cable boxes, but the new X1 box interprets it as a copy protection signal.

 

In case the appointment Tuesday doesn't prove to be fruitful, do you have any of those Motorola cable boxes available to ship?

Frequent Visitor

Re: another copy protection issue, can ComcastTeds help?

I was shocked to get a call from the executive office yesterday, and they say the repair technician tomorrow should have a box that will work for me, and they are going to call back Wednesday to be sure the problem is fixed!  Thank you Ted for being the catalyst for all of this!  Let's hope things go smoothly tomorrow.

 

BTW, I noticed another thread from a couple of years ago that I think is the same problem as mine (Comcast cable box, not cable card):

http://forums.xfinity.com/t5/Non-X1-Service/COPY-PROTECTION/td-p/2656611

Looks like that one was never solved, and that customer may have abandoned Comcast.

 

Out of curiosity, do Comcast cable boxes have the same kind of cable card in them as consumer purchased devices, or these are two different things?

Frequent Visitor

Re: another copy protection issue, can ComcastTeds help?

I wanted to follow up on what happened Tuesday.  The short story is I'm "fixed", although I'm left with some questions, and I'm back to the same minor issues I had that started this whole mess.

 

If I recall correctly, the executive office call on Sunday said they would make sure the tech who came to my house on Tuesday had the right equipment before arriving.  And the other guy I spoke with last week from the national office, who scheduled the tech to come out on Tuesday, said he would call first to confirm he had the right equipment.  Although I got an automated call from Comcast, the tech himself didn't call in advance.  When he arrived, he said he had no knowledge that he was supposed to bring legacy equipment.  However, after digging through some boxes in the back of the van, he finally came up with a DCT-700, the same model I had until a few weeks ago.

 

He hooked that up and it works the same as the previous DCT-700 I had, which is good, in that it allows me to record.  One minor annoyance, which is part of the reason I had switched equipment to start with, is that it only displays about 2 days' worth of program guide.  He told me to give it 12 hours and it should load 1-2 weeks' worth.  However, it has now been plugged in for over 60 hours, and still shows only about 2 days.  My guess is that's just all the capacity this model has, but no one seems to know the specs of the different boxes.

 

I had been hoping someone would find a DCH-70 (which I had a few years ago) or DCH-100, since they will do about a week of programming as I recall.  Someone from Indianapolis called me Tuesday afternoon and I asked about this, and she said she'd check on it.  Am I being unreasonable to ask for a specific model?  At least I'm able to record now, and things are back where they were.  Should I just be happy with that?  I really don't want to be a pain for Comcast, but I didn't think it should be such a huge deal to get a specific model.  Is it possible to be on a waiting list for the DCH-100 or DCH-70, like if someone turns one in a month or a year later I could get it?  As I said before, I'm more than happy to just buy it, but from what I've read they're all owned by Comcast and they won't sell them.  When they get them back, do they just trash them?

 

The executive office called back on Wednesday when I wasn't here, and I meant to call them back today and got too busy at work.  I intend to call them back Friday morning to keep them up to date, although they may be reading this thread.

 

Here are some additional items of confusion:

 

1. The repair tech who came out told me that the 150 box I had was in fact NOT an X1 box as I had been told by the local office.  He said he had some X1 boxes on the truck, but I didn't take a good look at them so I'd know the difference between the two.  The local Comcast office told me they only had one model they would give out to any customer, which was the X1 model, which was what I got.  If that wasn't X1, I wonder if it would've been worth trying the X1 box after all.  The tech said mine was a standard definition box, not X1, but the local office had said it would do either.  (It had an HDMI output.)  What is the model number of an X1 box?

 

2. Due to my recent bad experience with turning in my old equipment before getting the new, and because the local office told me that wasn't necessary, I wanted to keep the 150 for a few days and turn it in at the local office once I was sure the DCT-700 was the best fit.  But the repair tech said he couldn't let me do that and was required to take the "old" equipment (the 150 box).  I didn't understand why that was necessary, since worst case is I would've just been charged for having two boxes temporarily.  This is another example of apparently getting different answers from different departments at Comcast, which I guess is normall for a company of this size.

 

3. Very minor, but I had noticed that the 150 had an option for closed captioning, and that doesn't seem to be an option on the DCT-700.  Oh well.  I never had that before, and would rarely use it, but I just wish somewhere there was a list of features for each box, and a consumer could review the features and make an informed choice as to which box they wanted.  (Yes, my TV has closed captioning, but for some reason on certain shows, most often live shows, it doesn't work, while it did on the 150 for those shows.)

 

The other minor issue I was having with my original DCT-700 was about the "record to VCR" option when used with recurring programs, but it turned out the 150 box had the same issue, and I assume I'll hit it with the DCT-700 I have now too.  I think this option is on all non-DVR cable boxes from Comcast, but no one in the company seems to know that function even exists.  I may post in a new thread about that, since it's not related to the copy protection issue.

 

Again, in summary, I'm working now, back to the status quo of about a month ago.  I doubt I would've gotten this far without your help, Ted, and I really appreciate that.  I'm also totally astounded that several higher level people have gotten involved in the issue, which I feel was beyond the call of duty, but I'm flattered.

 

If you have any further insight on anything in this or my previous posts, please let me know! Smiley Happy

 

Thanks again,

Jeff

Frequent Visitor

Re: another copy protection issue, can ComcastTeds help?

Well I finally got what I wanted!  And now I'm disappointed. Smiley Sad  I guess I just can't be satisfied and should just give up.

 

I was shocked on Saturday when I got a call from the supervisor of the local techs here saying they had a DCH-70 as I had requested!  He had a guy bring it out on Saturday.  I asked if I could keep the DCT-700 just for a couple of days until I was sure the DCH-70 was better.  He said it was a bit complicated but they could do that.  However, I guess he didn't relay that message to Justin (the tech who showed up), who said his instructions were to take the DCT-700 back.

 

So the DCH-70 it turns out does not do a week's worth of guide as I had remembered, but only two days or so, same as the DCT-700.  My guess now is that when I had the DCH-70 years ago, there were fewer channels, and thus it took less memory to do a week of guide, while now there are so many channels it can only fit two days into its memory.  I wish I could tell it to only load guide info for the channels I actually watch!  Oh well.

 

But in that respect the two are the same, so either one is as good as the other.  What I didn't realize until later is that the audio output on the DCH-70 is WAY lower than the DCT-700 or any other equipment I have.  I made sure the volume on the DCH-70 was all the way up.  It's also set to TV speakers in the setup menu, which I think adds some compression on other boxes, but doesn't seem to make a difference here.  The issue is, I have to turn my speaker volume way up when watching TV, and then way down when watching a DVD or something else.  Not the worst problem in the world, but if I had just been able to keep both boxes for a couple of days, I'd have realized the DCH-70 wasn't any better at all, and have stuck with the DCT-700.

 

At this point I figure I have put Comcast through enough already, so I'll just stick with what I have, or perhaps look into buying my own box and getting a CableCARD.  Are the boxes on the linked post the only ones you support, or you'd basically support any that take a CableCARD?  For instance I found one called Tivo Roamio.  Would that be supported?

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