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Does Comcast SHUT OFF SERVICE after 6 Strikes ? Yes or No ??

Posted by
Frequent Visitor

Message 1 of 82
78,420 Views

See https://torrentfreak.com/isp-six-strikes-anti-piracy-scheme-120803/ :

 

In the coming months U.S. Internet providers will begin to warn and punish alleged copyright infringers. The “six strikes” plan is the result of a deal between the MPAA, RIAA and several large ISPs. However, only a small minority of U.S. ISPs are participating:  AT&T, Cablevision, Comcast, Time Warner Cable and Verizon.

So obviously, Comcast decided to join in and be one of only 5 companies in the Nation to track and threaten it's subscribers.  I love everything about Comcast except this - which I hate.

 

But I can find nothing concrete on Comcast's actual termination of service plans for 5 strikers - including in other Posts.  Comcast "moderators" are not answering the question in a direct manner.  And EVERYONE is acting scared.  Why . .. I found a guy posted the "Six Strikes question".  It took 4 MONTHS for one person to reply - and their message was "Why has no one answered ?".  Sheesh !!   Is everyone so terrified that they cannot even Reply to a question about this ??

 

I simply want to know and this should be CLEARLY LISTED IN Black and White on the Comcast Terms of Service.  If a Subscriber receives 6 Strikes WILL HIS SERVICE BE TERMINATED ??  Yes or No ?? 

Why no one else is asking this question is beyond me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

81 REPLIES
Posted by
Silver Problem Solver

Message 2 of 82
76,883 Views

A lot of the policy questons won't get answered by the customer volunteers. We don't have the answer. We don't get the answers from Comcast either. Only way would be someone with actual experience of that happening and I don't think you would see that posting here.

Unless a Comcast employee, username in RED, posts here with a answer I would say the safest bet would be to act like they will shut off the service on the sixth warning. Just a opinion.

 

Posted by
Gold Problem Solver

Message 3 of 82
76,880 Views
I did notify the Administrator of your post.


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Posted by
Contributor

Message 4 of 82
76,839 Views

According to this article, Comcast will start sending alerts/strikes this Monday (2/25/2013):

 

http://www.dailydot.com/news/copyright-alerts-system-launch-six-strikes/

 

 

Yet the only mention of CAS on all of Comcast's site is this, which just says information is coming soon:

 

http://customer.comcast.com/help-and-support/internet/copyrightalerts/

 

 

How can they start enforcing CAS, yet give us absolutely no information about it whatsoever?

 

Posted by
Frequent Visitor

Message 5 of 82
76,807 Views

Started on 2/25/13 ?? 

Actually I got a couple of "Alerts" months ago -  hence the question.

Also some others posted that they got alerts/warnings.

 

Myself, Wife, Daughter, her friends, and visitors with their laptops use my wireless connection when they are here.  My home is like a coffee shop.  So even if I am a saint, downloads can and do occur.

I am not the Internet Police and refuse to take that role.

 

Posted by
Contributor

Message 6 of 82
76,805 Views

The old notices were different.  The Copyright Alert System (aka Six Strikes) goes into effect next week, apparently Monday for Comcast.  Comcast has been completely silent as to how this will work and what the different strikes will mean.  All I've found are the various articles in the media over the last several months, which are mostly speculating as to how it will work, with little actual known facts.  The CAS has a website, but it's very short on specifics.

 

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Message 7 of 82
76,542 Views

This is Comcast's first warning: end this program, or I intend to switch service providers. I don't pirate anything ever, but I also don't want you monitoring my internet activity.  This type of activity has a chilling effect on free speech and I will not support any company who behaves in such a manner. 

 

This is your first warning.  Five more to go until your customers start dropping you in droves.

Posted by
Contributor

Message 8 of 82
76,370 Views

Simply stated - No. Termination of services is not a part of the Copyright Alert System implementation. When the Comcast system is launched, information and FAQs will be provided at customer.comcast.com/copyrightalerts.

Posted by
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Message 9 of 82
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Agreed. This "six strikes" thing should at least have more coverage if Comcast is serious about spying and threatening it's subscribers.

 

There is rumor that the method used for "detecting copyright infringement" includes glancing over your network traffic as well as its shapes and protocols. Unfortunately, P2P traffic is pretty similar to most PvP traffic used for hosting dedicated servers for online gaming. There's too many different matchmaking services and programs for Comcast and friends to correctly know if you're playing Skulltag and COD or just running a H@H server.

 

Essentially; Comcast needs to address concerns of "friendly-fire". I intend use my P2P programs everyday, whether Comcast spies on me or not.

 

Then there's the matter of how they'll alert you. Because of how the report system works, Comcast only carries out the alert and punishment and not the initial detection. That 3rd party company(sorry, can't remember)  simply reports that user Bob@98.666.66.66 is using P2P ports and should be warned. Comcast gives Bob 6 emails to stop whatever it is that they suspect he is so wrong for. Bob is like...i guess 80% of subscribers and has no idea what Comcast wants him to do, and telling his kids doesn't seem to stop the problem (hmm...) and now Bob pays $70 a month for 56kps internet. How are some people supposed to know what to stop doing if they don't provide exactly what they were doing wrong?

 

I'd have to say most subscribers don't know what a Network Administrator is, let alone that they are one and are now responsible for figuring out what exactly Comcast expects them to stop even though Comcast has made no attempt (to this date) to describe any of what it constitutes as "piracy" in relevance to what end users can understand.

 

This is what they have so far. I just hope Comcast understands how ridiculous this whole thing is. I'll give them six strikes then I'm on to a new ISP.

 

http://customer.comcast.com/help-and-support/internet/copyrightalerts/

Posted by
Contributor

Message 10 of 82
76,367 Views

Comcast does not monitor your activities. Comcast receives notices from content owners identifying an anonymous set of numbers known as an IP address visible on the Internet when the subscriber engages in behavior the owner believes infringes its copyrights.  If Comcast matches the IP address and time listed in the content owner’s notice with our logs, then Comcast generates a copyright alert to our subscriber. The content owner cannot find out your identity through the Copyright Alert System. Comcast protects the subscribers' privacy, no information is shared with the copyright holder.

Posted by
Frequent Visitor

Message 11 of 82
76,340 Views

Geez . . . first Google and Youtube started storing EVERYTHING that I do on their websites in a centralized Database.  Even though I read a complex process to opt out and spent an hour rifling through multiple web pages and checking numeropus Opt out Boxes  .  .  .  2 weeks later YouTube somehow opted me back in, and I suspect so has Google.  YouTube keeps a record of every Video I have watched and makes that info PUBLIC ! ! !  Who wants others seeing what videos they watched ?? 

 

Now Comcast is tracking my activities.  Since they are the ones that sent me the Infringment Email  -  you cannot say that they do not track their Users.  Obviously they ARE, or at least they are complicit in the process.  No one forced them to sign up with this RIAA tracking scheme.  They did so wilfully and without any input from their subscribers.. 

Posted by
Gold Problem Solver

Message 12 of 82
76,264 Views

lifeson99 wrote: ... YouTube keeps a record of every Video I have watched and makes that info PUBLIC ! ! ! ...

Really? How do you know?

Posted by
Contributor

Message 13 of 82
76,258 Views

Comcast has not yet published its implementation description until the system is launched later this week. I can assure you there is no termination in our Copyright Alert implementation.

Posted by
Frequent Visitor

Message 14 of 82
76,214 Views

I must correct myself on YouTube.  They only let others see the Video listed that you've explicitly Liked, Favorited, Commented on, and Subscribed to.

 

As far as no Termination after 6 strikes  -  if that is true then I am a happy camper.

I cannot find that stated anywhere and assumed termination when I read that Comcast was one of 5 companies to implement a 6 Strikes policy.  It seems to make sense based on the name of the policy.  It seems a natural assumption, you know . . . "6 strikes and you're Out".  But if not then maybe they could call it something different ?   Thanks for the info.

 

 

Posted by
Contributor

Message 15 of 82
76,177 Views

It is unfortunate the media has given the process that label. The system's objectives are to increase awareness and provide education. The system uses "alerts" not strikes, no one gets struck out.

Posted by
Contributor

Message 16 of 82
76,174 Views

By the way - it does have a proper name, it is called the Copyright Alert System. Check it out at http://www.copyrightinformation.org/

 

 

Posted by
Contributor

Message 17 of 82
75,965 Views

@jogryphon -  Where are you getting your information?  I've seen numerous news articles stating that Comcast is implementing it today (Monday 2/25), and at www.copyrightinformation.org there's a press release also stating that CAS goes info effect today.

 

Also customer.comcast.com/copyrightalerts is 404 not found.

 

Comcast should explain this system before it is implemented, not after!

 

Posted by
Regular Contributor

Message 18 of 82
75,920 Views

I'm interested to see how Comcast handles this. 

 

Are they still relying on DMCA request and then handing out strikes or are they monitoring our traffic themselves. 

 

I am also curious on what each strike entales. It seems each ISP is doing this differently. 

Posted by
Contributor

Message 19 of 82
75,882 Views

I work for Comcast - the articles are partially correct in that the ISPs involved are launching their systems this week on various days. The first ISP launched on Monday. The customer.comcast.com/copyrightalerts page will be live when Comcast launches its system later this week.

Posted by
Contributor

Message 20 of 82
75,880 Views

Comcast is not monitoring traffic and relies on the copyright holder to send the ISP the notice. The objective of the alerts is to increase awareness for those who are not aware the activity is taking place on their account, provide education on copyright, and provide information on resources where the desired content can be found from various providers.

Posted by
Service Expert

Message 21 of 82
75,855 Views

jogryphon wrote:

I work for Comcast - the articles are partially correct in that the ISPs involved are launching their systems this week on various days. The first ISP launched on Monday. The customer.comcast.com/copyrightalerts page will be live when Comcast launches its system later this week.


You are providing what seems to be good information. HOWEVER, Comcast employees must be authorized to post here in an official capacity.

Authorized employees have their names in red and are designated as such. This assures customers they are dealing with an employee.

 

Other employees can post. They cannot state they are employees nor can they allude to being an employee.

 

 

 

 




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Posted by
Contributor

Message 22 of 82
75,790 Views

A fair point - I am working with the administrator to fix my account - my apologies.

Posted by
Service Expert

Message 23 of 82
75,778 Views

NOW you can officially speak for Comcast here in the forums.

 

 




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I am an XFINITY Forum Expert and I am here to help. For information on the program click here.
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Was your question answered? Mark it as an accepted solution!solution Icon
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Posted by
Regular Contributor

Message 24 of 82
75,629 Views

Quick question, now that we've got some official Comcast employees here answering some questions. Do you plan on changing how DMCA notices are handled and which ones get directed to the customer?

 

Only reason I ask if because I had a roomate of mine download every single season of archer like a %$%$# and I literally got 60 DMCA notices over the course of several months.  

 

How would that work with the new six strikes program? 

Posted by
Contributor

Message 25 of 82
75,619 Views
The Copyright Alert System (CAS) is used only for notices sent to us by copyright holders for activity over P2P networks. Comcast still has an obligation by law to the DMCA, those notices sent to us will continue to be processed as they are today. An email is sent to the account holders comcast.net email address. If an email address is not available on the account, a post letter is sent.
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Message 26 of 82
75,579 Views

WIll this effect gamers? With Steam for PC and Playstation Network for PS3 they allow you to have a digital copies and a game is big as 40GB does that mean if I go over my bandwidth I'm going to get a warning? If its true I'm guessing 300GB is the cap now does it reset every month or every billing cycle?

Posted by
Contributor

Message 27 of 82
75,533 Views
Is your question more about data usage or copyright? Can you clarify please.
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Message 28 of 82
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more of a bandwidth I'm assuming, but don't they look at your bandwidth usage and put you under suspicion? I had this problem before about 3-4 years ago but now I never had any warning issues.

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Message 29 of 82
75,412 Views

your misenformed.  while comcast may not be monitoring our activitites, it's using the services of MarkMonitor to "identify users engaging in copyright-violating activities, then leaves it up to ISPs to take action. ISPs participating at this point include AT&T, Verizon, Comcast, Cablevision and Time Warner Cable."

http://www.cnn.com/2012/11/30/tech/web/six-strikes-internet

 

That's a lot different than acting on dmca takedown notice from a content owner.

 

 

Posted by
Contributor

Message 30 of 82
75,410 Views

For this reply I'll assume "they" is the Copyright holder. Copyright holders are not involved in our (Comcast) data usage policies, it is a separate issue. Unless you are in Nashville or Tucson, we have no data usage plan in your area at this time.

Posted by
Contributor

Message 31 of 82
75,407 Views

Climber00 -

 

The DMCA obligates ISPs to perform two duties;

 

1. Pass on to the customer a copyright notice served by a copyright notice

2. Execute on a take down request removing copyright protected material from the ISPs owned properties (e.g. a personal web page service)

 

CAS is similar to #1 of the DMCA, but of course is focused on aledged copyright infringement over P2P networks using new alerts for increasing awareness and compelling customers to receive education.

Posted by
Contributor

Message 32 of 82
75,275 Views

jogryphon - I was confused because before it didn't say you were an employee of Comcast, now it does.

 

Some questions:

 

Will will be flagged for downloading legal files via Torrent?  For example many Linux distributions (like Ubuntu) are distributed legally over Torrent.  World of Warcraft updates it software using Torrent as well.  So to rephase it, does all P2P downloading result in alerts, or just copyrighted material?  Assuming that it is just copyrighted material, how is this separated from legal files?  What about movies and music released under the Creative Commons License?

 

What will the consequences of each strike be?  My understanding is that each ISP has different rules for this... the others announced well in advance what the consequences are, but Comcast hasn't said anything.

 

My understanding is that we (Comcast's customers) must pay $35 to fight false alerts.  What systems are in place to prevent false positives?  Will the content providers be fined or otherwise punished for false alerts?  I read stories all the time of false DMCA takedown notices (usually sent by automated systems like Mark Monitor), how will this be different?  Mark Monitor itself sent take down notices to HBO, for HBO's own content just a couple weeks ago:

 

http://www.geeky-gadgets.com/hbo-com-flagged-as-hbo-copyright-violator-by-markmonitor-06-02-2013/

 

 

BTW, customer.comcast.com/copyrightalerts is still 404 not found.

 

Posted by
Contributor

Message 33 of 82
75,268 Views

It sounds like Comcast and other ISPs will only be notifying users once the ISP is notified by the copyright holder. 6 Strikes doesn't sound like an assault on torrenting, only the torrenting of copyrighted stuff that copyright holders don't want illegally downloaded. Comcast, at least, will not be notifying the copyright holders of user's identities. Am I right in these assumptions?

Posted by
Contributor

Message 34 of 82
75,251 Views

adam_WM wrote:

It sounds like Comcast and other ISPs will only be notifying users once the ISP is notified by the copyright holder. 6 Strikes doesn't sound like an assault on torrenting, only the torrenting of copyrighted stuff that copyright holders don't want illegally downloaded. Comcast, at least, will not be notifying the copyright holders of user's identities. Am I right in these assumptions?


But how are they determining what is and isn't illegal?  Does Mark Monitor decide this?  If Mark Monitor can't tell the difference between pirated HBO shows and HBO's own website, how can it be trusted to never flag anything erroneously?

And I'd like to hear from Comcast that downloading legal files via Torrent is okay.  http://www.copyrightinformation.org/ makes it sound like everything on Torrent is pirated (which is obviously untrue).

 

 

Posted by
Contributor

Message 35 of 82
75,123 Views

mclandauer -  I'll take these one at a time.

 

Will will be flagged for downloading legal files via Torrent? For example many Linux distributions (like Ubuntu) are distributed legally over Torrent.  World of Warcraft updates it software using Torrent as well.  So to rephase it, does all P2P downloading result in alerts, or just copyrighted material? 

 

 Only for material the copyright holder believes you do not have permission to use or share.

 

 

Assuming that it is just copyrighted material, how is this separated from legal files?  What about movies and music released under the Creative Commons License?

 

  A fair question - let me get a proper answer from our legal department.

 

 

What will the consequences of each strike be?  My understanding is that each ISP has different rules for this... the others announced well in advance what the consequences are, but Comcast hasn't said anything.

 To my knowledge no ISP announced in advance, I believe one was interviewed and the other had their information leaked. For Comcast the first alerts are informative - letting the account holder know the activity is taking place, all that is required of the customer is to read the alerts. As repeated notices are received, the alerts will require acknowledgement of the alert by signing in (the acknowlegement phase). If more notices are received, the alert will become persistent and the customer will be required to either appeal or call Customer Security Assurance (CSA) to have the alert removed (the mitigation phase). At no time do we alter the speed of the connection or disrupt your connection to the internet.

 

My understanding is that we (Comcast's customers) must pay $35 to fight false alerts.  What systems are in place to prevent false positives? 

 

 The appeal is handled by the American Arbitration Association - selected by the Center for Copyright Information (CCI). There is a registration fee of $35, if the aledged copyright infringement is false, the fee is returned. There is also a waiver process for the fee, e.g. for students, etc. I cannot speak to the details regarind the measures Mark Monitor takes to prevent false positives. Comcast also has the ability to waive alerts in the event there is an error in our systems or we are informed there was an error.

 

 

Will the content providers be fined or otherwise punished for false alerts?  I read stories all the time of false DMCA takedown notices (usually sent by automated systems like Mark Monitor), how will this be different?  Mark Monitor itself sent take down notices to HBO, for HBO's own content just a couple weeks ago: 

http://www.geeky-gadgets.com/hbo-com-flagged-as-hbo-copyright-violator-by-markmonitor-06-02-2013/

 

  I am unaware of any process in place to fine or punish copyright holders in the event of a false alert.

Posted by
Contributor

Message 36 of 82
75,122 Views

adam_WM

 

Yes, your understanding is correct.

Posted by
Contributor

Message 37 of 82
75,119 Views

mclandauer -

 

adam_WM has it right - alerts are not suppose to be served for torrenting legal material. I do not have details on Mark Monitor's methodology. I have heard that watermarks are placed into copyrighted material and Mark Monitor looks for those watermarks - but I am not an expert on this and do not have details or accurate information. If I find a source for more information I will post it here on the forum.

Posted by
Contributor

Message 38 of 82
75,077 Views
Folks,

The information page on our implementation of CAS is up at www.comcast.com/copyrightalerts
Posted by
Regular Contributor

Message 39 of 82
74,739 Views

How does this policy work for business users or users in general who offer public wifi spots? There is no real full proof way to block illegal P2P traffic. 

Posted by
Contributor

Message 40 of 82
74,697 Views

jogryphon - Thanks for your responses.

 

All and all, it sounds like this is pretty innocuous, compared to what we've been led to believe about it.

 

In the future, Comcast might try communicating changes or new programs to its customers before misinformation and FUD has a chance to spread through the Internet.

 

Posted by
Contributor

Message 41 of 82
74,653 Views

kraze1994-

 

The program does not apply to commercial business internet service and does not block P2P traffic at all. The CCI initiative is applicable to residential service.

Posted by
Contributor

Message 42 of 82
74,652 Views

mclandauer -

 

You are welcome for the response and thank you for your suggestion to publish material earlier. A reasonable suggestion for us to consider in the future.

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Message 43 of 82
74,648 Views

So instead of throttling, you will turn our browsing experience into an exercise in "what if I had installed malware"?  It's not even the "6th notice" when things become an issue.  Imagine if this acknowledgement requirement had been in place when I was doing school projects under my parents' internet long ago.  I'd get to  lose 5-6 hours waiting for them to return home from work 60 miles away to log in and acknowledge. now even the disciplined latch-key kids get grade depression.

 

What i'm seeing here is Comcast and these interest groups, whose enforcement arms have already been proven in study after study to have ridiculously high false positive rates, side-stepping congress and the courts after the defeat of SOPA and abrogating the due process rights of every customer on this board by making their internet experience pretty frustrating on a "guilty until proven innocent" basis.

 

I want to see an official announcement that you serve your customers and not the CCI, or I sign up for one of at least 3 wireless alternatives who are not colluding to circumvent the legislative and judicial system to the deteriment of customer experience and due process.

 

Comcast has one week before I go. I will be publishing this far and wide.

 

I've been a comcast customer for 11 years in various locations.

 

 

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Message 44 of 82
74,558 Views
I would like to know how peer-to-peer traffic defined by Comcast. P2P is pretty vague, and really broad.

How do they determine normal traffic from P2P traffic? Deep packet inspection? Port monitoring?
Posted by
Frequent Visitor

Message 45 of 82
74,542 Views

I would like to know "WHY" Comcast signed up for this 6-strike thing in the first place ?

What kind of relationship does Comcast have with Hollywood that would cause them to collude with them in this much-hated endeavor ?  Obviously the people that pay Comcast ALL hate it . . . so why would Comcast sign up for it ??

Posted by
Contributor

Message 46 of 82
74,493 Views

istonye -

 

Comcast is not involved in identifying the aledged infringement we are provided the notices only. According to the instructional video provided on the CCI website at http://www.copyrightinformation.org/the-copyright-alert-system/  , content owners detect the sharing of their content by joining P2P networks. So there isn't any DPI or port monitoring going on in our network.

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Message 47 of 82
74,365 Views

Comcast owns NBC Universal. So they ARE a content provider. 

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Message 48 of 82
74,325 Views

jogryphon:

 

It does not change the fact that comcast is acting as private police, and placing the wants and needs of the special interests behind SOPA above their own customers.

 

It skirts the lines of the constitution (private parties are forbidden the power of police), anti-trust law, and tortuous interference.

 

In this thread is admittance to forced browser lock until the proprietor of the account (generally only ONE of the 3 to 5 members of a typical household, the one who is gone most of the time) comes to "acknowledge" what is an unproven allegation.

 

Our service is being degraded without judicial oversight, and without the consultation or assent of our elected officials.

 

To others who read this thread and are angered:
While the members of this group often have land-line monopoly status, wimax has caught up in the past 3 years, and they don't need land infrastructure, so can even cover rented rooms.  Enough research will bear out a competitor who is not on this list.  (The EFF has primers on this)

Posted by
Regular Contributor

Message 49 of 82
74,310 Views

I'm curious how that browser popup will work. Unless you just forcefully redirect the internet until we agree I don't see a way of doing it that can easily be worked around. 

Posted by
Contributor

Message 50 of 82
74,205 Views

plasmacutter -

 

and others on this thread. I am not an expert in law or in matters of government policy, but I do share your remarks with those who are experts here at Comcast. I wanted you to know your input is not ignored.